A hand

[SA125]

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he likely thinks I'm somewhat tight/predictable

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Wow. I remember the post where Zee asked you what stage you were in when you got crazy with 55 or something. Seems like something's changed.

Anyway, looks like if you've played together enough, he should have TP beat. Unless he's betting because it's the only way he wins. Which you think is the case.

Alternative lines are either just passively calling down or folding to the river donk after raising the turn. I prefer the raise. Either I think is better than paying off that river.

[mike l.]

i dont really see the point in raising the turn. he's not likely to fold anything on the turn, and although making him pay to draw is good youre just beat by so many hands. the pause means weakness sometimes, but sometimes it also means theyre going to show you a weak A or QQ or something terribly irritating.

use your position to save bets and decide right there on the turn youre putting in exactly two more bets (if you dont spike), none more, none less.

[mike l.]

"Capping preflop"

no cap headsup live

[Westley878]

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HI Clarkmeister,

It looks like you posted this hand becuz you were wondering if there is a better line to take in this spot with TT against this type of opponent.

Heres a quote from TOP, page 272, that may apply here.

11. "Against an opponent who plays too loose on early rounds and too aggressively later on you should play solid cards, but play them meekly. Make this player think he can run over you."

Since the villain seems to fit this decription, If I were to apply this concept, I would just call his 3 bet preflop, and on this board, I would just call down. What do you think of the merits of this strategy against this particular opponent. I personally like this line against this villain.

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Capping preflop is totally mandatory if his 3 betting range includes hands you dominate, and he will continue to play in a bizarre way(see this hand) postflop.
-James

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I have to say I strongly disagree with this statement. I'm not saying capping is a bad play, but I definitely do not think its mandatory. Just becuz the hero's hand is likely to be ahead of the villain's 3betting range does not necessarily mean that capping is the best play. Against certain opponents it may be best to pass up our edge preflop, depending on how our opponent will react postflop to the hero's cap versus the how the villain will react postflop if the hero just calls the 3bet.

Holdem is too complicated of a game to ever say that capping is absolutely madatory. It can very easily be the case that the hero stands to make more money in the long run by just calling the 3 bet and letting the villain stay in control of this hand than if the hero capped and retook control of the hand. As you know, limit holdem is a muti-steet game, how the hero plays one street will have a direct impact on how the later streets play out. Becuz of this reality, the hero actually has a lot of flexibilty preflop after the villain 3 bets. Whether the hero should cap or not, I am not certain, but I am certain of this much. There are no absolutes here, and against many opponents with the same range as this villains 3bet, capping would not be the right play here.

Edit: Just realized from Mike1's post that this is HU live so there is no cap, just replace the word cap with fourbet.

[PokerBob]

seems fine. i am assuming you were dumping to a turn 3bet?

[flawless_victory]

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"Capping preflop"

no cap headsup live

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in vegas there is, but its five bets.

[Eeyore]

he obviously bet the turn to avoid giving a free card, which means he has a made hand. if you raise the turn he might confuse him. are you semi-bluffing, do you have an ace??, i dont know. in any event he will now not bet the river which you were hoping he would do.

[goofball]

Just a random observation from live play:

I've noticed a fair amount of calling the turn raise and donking the river from a certain type of player against a certain type as a kind of value bluff. Specifically against rocking players from LAGish players who play/read hands well but give up way too much with their looseness and aggression.

Anyway, this really looks like a perfect kind of spot for this to happen (although it'd be a little better if the river was a bit scarier). Against the kind of player you're describing I'd frequently play this hand the exact same way. It really seems like the best way to just let them outplay themselves.

[SinCityGuy]

I used to be a firm believer in the concept of stopping bluffs, which is what you did with your turn raise. However, there are plenty of donks at all limits these days who will fire again on a busted draw after your great show of strength on the turn. Against this type of player, I would call down on the river, although it's close. Against any other type of player, this is a clear fold.

[Clarkmeister]

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"Capping preflop"

no cap headsup live

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in vegas there is, but its five bets.

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Mike is right. In most rooms, including this one, once it's headsup there's no cap. So we could've gone 12 bets preflop had we both chosen to do so.