77 against a steal - Page 3

sethypooh21 · #21 09-29-2007, 01:54 AM

AP must do funny things to your mind (I mean, aside from revealing your hole cards to random donks) because I have no clue as to what happened here...

ILOVEPOKER929 · #22 09-29-2007, 02:10 AM

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I was going to ask you the same thing since it's nothing like saying you should raise AA here.

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That's my point exactly. That's why TheHip's logic is flawed. I was nitpicking here cuz I was looking for a reason to rip on thehip.

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dont want to go with the old standby, I have a g/f, I play 25-50, I'm skinny today?

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If youre feeling depressed right now, this should cheer you up.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=275_1190800481

TheHip41 · #23 09-29-2007, 03:55 AM

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I was going to ask you the same thing since it's nothing like saying you should raise AA here.

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That's my point exactly. That's why TheHip's logic is flawed. I was nitpicking here cuz I was looking for a reason to rip on thehip.

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dont want to go with the old standby, I have a g/f, I play 25-50, I'm skinny today?

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If youre feeling depressed right now, this should cheer you up.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=275_1190800481

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i thought this was going to be porn. wtf dude. and i'm not depressed. things are good. haven't played poker in 15 days, bought halo 3, roomies are gone for 3 days. good times.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #24 09-29-2007, 04:03 AM

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I was going to ask you the same thing since it's nothing like saying you should raise AA here.

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That's my point exactly. That's why TheHip's logic is flawed. I was nitpicking here cuz I was looking for a reason to rip on thehip.

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dont want to go with the old standby, I have a g/f, I play 25-50, I'm skinny today?

[/ QUOTE ]

If youre feeling depressed right now, this should cheer you up.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=275_1190800481

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i thought this was going to be porn. wtf dude. and i'm not depressed. things are good. haven't played poker in 15 days, bought halo 3, roomies are gone for 3 days. good times.

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Ha! Youre tellin me that you didnt feel happy that you werent in that guy's situation? Next time Im on a 300BB downswing, I'll think of that guy and I'll feel better real quickly.

Oink · #25 09-29-2007, 05:38 AM

Dont hate me for trying to put this discussion back on track [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

@OP

Preflop is close. And you should listen to ILP and others here.

Its close for me with 66-88 here. I will always 3-bet 99+ and almost always call 55-. 66-88 depends. Your eq is closer to 50% so you have less eq edge to push.

So you need to consider how your preflop play affect dynamics.

Say you have ATo or A5o. Its kind of the same spot. You have a slight eq edge but your preflop play will dictate how postflop plays.

Ok, so say you 3-bet ATo vs an NON SD bound TAG. Whenever Axx flops he is folding quite are large part of his range. If the flop is AT8 with a fd he is prolly folding 55 and calling KQ with the intention of folding the turn UI. Now say you just called preflop and c/r the AT8 flop. This line is by most recognized by a weaker line than 3-balling PF. So it is much more likely that he will SD his 55 on safe turns+rivers and/or play back with KQ putting you on a weakish made hand or a draw. In other words you get more action by just calling vs the non SD bound TAG.

Now say that you 3-ball ATo vs a SD bound LAG. Now its much different. Your 3-bet isnt making him fold that much postflop since he is more SD bound. In other words 3-balling preflop wont kill your action that much on Axx flops.

Ok back to 66-88 hands. Here it is the exact opposite of Ax hands as you would be just fine with people folding more on AT8 flops. This means that you should be more inclined to 3-bet 66-88 vs non SD bound players and call it vs SD bound players. So in this hand PF is a call IMO.

Taking it a bit further; Kx hands. With these hands you'd like to rep a good A. So that you can get folds on those Axx flops. So like the 66-88 hands you should 3-bet Kx against non SD bound players and just call vs SD bound players. (KQ and KJs is a 3-bet for me regardless I am talking about KTo K7s and such.)

Ok I am rambling. I hope I am making sense and that you can use this. GL with 6max!

ILOVEPOKER929 · #26 09-29-2007, 11:35 AM

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PF is fine against this guys range. you have 22 here.

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Preflop is gonna be fine against almost anybody's range in this spot. This much was figured out like 30 years ago. That's why the decision of whether to 3bet preflop or not should not be based soley on this guy's range. If that was the case, it would be 3bet always. Your statement is the same as saying "3betting with AA is fine against this guy's range." zzzzzz.

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ILP, you are one of the best players on AP, so glad to see you posting again.

Wait a minute, I don't think you play enough hands/month to qualify. Do you even get in the VIP tournaments anymore? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Ha, I missed this gem last night. Sadly, the answer is no to the tournament question.

Apanage · #27 09-29-2007, 12:50 PM

I think this is another example of a preflop equity edge raise that blows up in your face.
I think it is the wrong hand against wrong villain to make this raise preflop.

1.Your chance to improve your hand is not great.
2.He is never going to fold a better hand postflop
3.When behind you´re going to lose more bets than when ahead.
4.As seen in this hand it is easy for you to end up in situations where you easily could make the wrong decision.

I would go so far that even a call preflop and check/calling all streets has a better chance to make more money than a preflop raise.

As played on flop you still have 52% equity against his hand.That means that a bet is not correct if you think that you always get 3-bet by better hands and seldom by worse hands.But If you don´t bet you risk giving freecards.
But who is check/calling a flop after 3-betting preflop and how much does it cost if he takes the freecard?

numbnuts007 · #28 09-29-2007, 01:27 PM

Isn't there something to be said for taking the iniative pf when you have an edge in hopes to have villian give up on the flop. No matter what the flop, it would be a great result to just have villian fold to bet on the flop. If villian has 2 overs to our pair and we just call, even if he doesn't hit on the flop, there is a good chance he'll peel the flop. I think if we can do something when we're pretty sure we're ahead that can make our lives easier when we're not so sure, then it's to our benefit.

Robin Foolz · #29 09-29-2007, 02:11 PM

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If you are against his range of only 21% (as described as being important above) then your equity is only 44% on this flop. I could easily find a fold button here,

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so say we have around 44% flop equity and we're getting 10.5-1 immediate odds to continue. why should we fold here.

Robin Foolz · #30 09-29-2007, 02:12 PM

the problem you have here is that you have no idea how to weigh his range because apparently you have no idea how he plays.
for instance, he could easily have A8 or KT here; also could have QJ, J9 or 97, or just a frush draw, or looking for a free turn card with AJ or KQ. maybe he think his 66 is best and will play it like tp cuz he put you on AK? who knows.

you should at the very least see turn imo because there are a ton of draw combos. pot's pretty big. and your hand may be goot.