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#21
09-11-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
With no knowledge of either book...
The biggest factor for the crime rate tends to be the size of the male population aged 19-25. That I gues supports the abortion theory, but I kinda doubt there were enough to actaully swing things. 
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#22
09-11-2007, 04:09 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately.
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#23
09-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
The biggest factor for the crime rate tends to be the size of the male population aged 19-25. [/ QUOTE ] That seems to me to be a textbook example of confounding factors. Its not like being 22 pushes one towards crime.
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#24
09-11-2007, 04:13 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately. [/ QUOTE ] In principle it can, in practise it is not in normative economics, and creating mathematical models where it is is a massive challenge.
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#25
09-11-2007, 04:20 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately. [/ QUOTE ] In principle it can, in practise it is not in normative economics, and creating mathematical models where it is is a massive challenge. [/ QUOTE ] no semantics arguments in OOT for me. (he said irrational behavior not incomplete models).
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#26
09-11-2007, 04:32 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The biggest factor for the crime rate tends to be the size of the male population aged 19-25. [/ QUOTE ] That seems to me to be a textbook example of confounding factors. Its not like being 22 pushes one towards crime. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's just that most crime is committed by this group and that if there's more of them, more crime. Not rocket science really. Also I'm pretty sure poverty is a huge indicator as well. No idea how that factors into all of them. It's been a long time since college.
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#27
09-11-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately. [/ QUOTE ] In principle it can, in practise it is not in normative economics, and creating mathematical models where it is is a massive challenge. [/ QUOTE ] 5-year plan, anybody? I've read neither book, but the first thing I learned in Intro to Econ was that "these models apply only in theory."
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#28
09-11-2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately. [/ QUOTE ] In principle it can, in practise it is not in normative economics, and creating mathematical models where it is is a massive challenge. [/ QUOTE ] no semantics arguments in OOT for me. (he said irrational behavior not incomplete models). [/ QUOTE ] His post implied 'irrational' in the economic sense, which typically means contrary to the concept of rationality presented in normative economics. If that was not his intention then I misunderstood, though I probably still disagree. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#29
09-11-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Assuming that people have qualities like compassion, decency, solidarity, self-sacrifice, etc. is not treating them like idiots. [/ QUOTE ] why is it so hard for people to understand that care for other people's utility can simply and easily be factored into your own utility? you don't have to treat them separately. [/ QUOTE ] In principle it can, in practise it is not in normative economics, and creating mathematical models where it is is a massive challenge. [/ QUOTE ] no semantics arguments in OOT for me. (he said irrational behavior not incomplete models). [/ QUOTE ] His post implied 'irrational' in the economic sense, which typically means contrary to the concept of rationality presented in normative economics. If that was not his intention then I misunderstood, though I probably still disagree. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] i should have just said "i dont think empathy has anything to do with this thread" and left it at that. that way at least i would have known what i was arguing about.
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#30
09-11-2007, 04:55 PM
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Re: The Tipping Point + Freakonomics re: crime
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The biggest factor for the crime rate tends to be the size of the male population aged 19-25. [/ QUOTE ] That seems to me to be a textbook example of confounding factors. Its not like being 22 pushes one towards crime. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's just that most crime is committed by this group and that if there's more of them, more crime. Not rocket science really. Also I'm pretty sure poverty is a huge indicator as well. No idea how that factors into all of them. It's been a long time since college. [/ QUOTE ] The explanation offered is that the subset of 19-25 year old boys who would have been born if not for abortion (more likely to be poor and unwanted) were much more likely to be criminals.
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