I bragged I made the right play, but was it?

[vmacosta]

wow entity i can't imagine folding this flop--bd draws alone would force me to make crying calls of every raise.

im probably way too loose in these situations though cuz I'd call preflop and feel great about it.

edit: damn i posted semi blind (only read entity's reply and OP) and missed the assumption that SB has AA/KK. Guess that changes everything. I don't like that assumption though--in today's games this player is extremely rare.

[Howard Beale]

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Results: Did it accomplish anything?

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Not yet.

I raised because for the extra price of one small bet I may get a few players to fold and increase my chances of winning this big pot if I improve. Plus, if it turns out that no one has a flush draw (and who knows if anybody does, large field or not, with this crew) I can represent if a spade comes on the turn if I can get most of them to fold. I have a few backdoor draws to go w/ my pair. I've got at least a call, and good reasons to raise.

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I don't like the call preflop if she can only have AA or KK.

Also, if she is anywhere close to being competant, your raise might clear everyone else out, but you are getting 3 bet for sure. So pretty much what you are doing is helping her clear the field with her hand but reducing your implied odds if you hit your hand.

Another thing. What good does representing a flush do for you? No one in that game will fold AA postflop ever, and you know that probably better than anyone else in this forum.

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It would've been helpful to spend a bit of time on player descriptions. SB and I are long time friends but she is petrified of me. She's decent enough to be a winner in the game but makes mistakes galore. I've had her leave the game when I sit down. I have a decent chance of manipulating her. Secondly, the table was full of 'bleeders'. If I hit a hand they are paying allllll the way. The only player in this hand with a big pair is SB. Somebody else could've flopped 2 pair or a set or anything else they wouldn't fold but I can't know that and besides trying to clear the field and get out the weaker hands and those inclined to try for runners I get better info on where I'm at for what I think is a small price given the size of the pot. The pot's big and I'm not thinking (should I be, at this point?) about implied odds and wanted to do that which gave me the best chance to win the thing.

Anywhere, here's what happened. I'll put it far down the page for those who don't want to know:












After I raised everyone folded to the button (I had him on my 'plays decent list') who called and I'm thinking he's got the draw. SB just called.

Turn:

10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets (tyvm) I raise, button calls (that's the flush draw for sure, right? Right? Right?!!!!!) and SB calls.

River:

Blank. SB checks, I bet, Button calls (uh-oh), SB flashes her AA and folds, I say I've got a 10, Button asks 'What's your kicker?' and wins w/ the Q-10o. I puke.

My flop raise was intended to fold that kind of hand. He's got to know he was up against a big pair, the board's 2-suited w/ 2 straight cards and there's a raise and he called w/ Q-10o. I take him off my 'plays decent list' but leave myself on it due to ego reasons.

Edit to add:

I'm having my house remodeled. The crew will be here in an hour. I've got to unhook the computer now and will be gone for a few days. See you all in a bit.

[JeffO]

Preflop I like your call and your hand in a multiway pot, though I don't like your relative position to the PF 3 better.

Post flop I don't like for the reason already stated by another poster. "So pretty much what you are doing is helping her clear the field with her hand but reducing your implied odds if you hit your hand."

[Howard Beale]

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Preflop I like your call and your hand in a multiway pot, though I don't like your relative position to the PF 3 better.

Post flop I don't like for the reason already stated by another poster. "So pretty much what you are doing is helping her clear the field with her hand but reducing your implied odds if you hit your hand."

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Oh, dear. You know what you're talking about and must be listened to (please don't take that personally, everybody else. It's just that I've seen JeffO in action which I haven't for most of the rest of you). OTOH, Clarkmeister thought it was ok so there is that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'd like to talk more about it with you when I see you next if you don't mind and have the time. Thanks for the reply.

[Clarkmeister]

Raising is fine, but thinking you'll fold a ten is not one of the reasons to raise. There's no chance top pair will ever fold.

Things you want to fold: Bigger diamond draws, gutshot hands that could make a straight or a straight draw if you make two pair, pocket pairs below 10, single spades in case there's not a two card flush draw.

Granted some of these may not fold depending on the player, and many of them should not fold, but it's good to give them a chance to fold. People fold way too much in pots like these, even though it's conventional wisdom that "everyone calls", they really don't once raises start flying.

[andyfox]

"He's got to know he was up against a big pair"

You're giving him too much credit. Blind was raised and cold-caled and yet bet out on the turn when the top board card paired. It's often a mistake to give your opponents logical thoughts akin to yours.

Besides, you knew you were up against a big pair, and you played on.

Good luck with the remodel. Not a lot of fun while it's happening, but this is a case of being results oriented.

[mongidig]

Upon further review I don't think the raise was that bad since I originally thought it had been capped preflop. I think that I would still call though.

I don't think the buttons call was that horrible. True he should know that SB has a big hand but he should also know that you are able to represent stronger hands than you actually have. He may also realize that she slows down when you show aggression, therefore, she may not three bet the flop. Even after his outs are discounted he has just about the odds that he needs to continue and is in good position. Even though you feel strongly that SB has AA or KK I usually leave open a small percentage of time that she has something like AsKs. I don't mind his smooth call here either since many of the would be drawers are gone and a raise is certainly not going to get the BB out. His smooth call may actually by him a free card if a scare card hits the turn assuming he thinks he is behind.