2 really interesting hands from the LA WPT

[THEOSU]

I think that perhaps the reason that Bechtel raised to 10500 was that it was either all going in now or he was winning it now. If he makes it 8500, LP can still call and then reassess the river (or fill up).

I think that the strategy is good for this spot. The pot is nice enough to win now that he shouldn't be upset if that's what happens, but similarly, if he can induce villain to go in getting incorrect odds - that'd be an outstanding result as well.

Very interesting stuff, David, thank you.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1:

Guy in EP thought for a while and then folded, really unhappy about it, he even made the mistake of saying something like, "I can't believe I folded the nut flush draw" before button acted, I told him, he should not make a comment until the hand was over. Now BT went to the tank, and after some minutes he folded also, he said he folded a set. SB didn't show, but I'm pretty sure he had the nuts. This hand caught my attention, and I was wondering, what is the right bet for SB?
The pot had 7650, I think the raise from 3500 to 10500 was too strong, you need to protect your hand, but I think a raise to 8500 would do it. The flush guy doesn't have the odds to call, and even if the flush guy calls, now the set guy doesn't have the right odds either. By raising to 10500 he made them make the right decision.

Hand #2:

After a while, MP decided to call. I can't blame him, the pot was really big by the river.

You won't believe their hands, I was expecting at least one full house and a flush, but they had"

EP: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
MP: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I find their holdings pretty interesting, but I let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it strange that we are asked to guess the holding of someone who "can't believe they are folding the nut flush draw here".

I'm sorry I know everyone enjoys it but I constantly just don't get stuff like this. Most random people suck, and tons of people do weird things, it's not like I have to guess what they have all the time, I know that sometimes they are just going to be totally insane, or have very little idea of whats going on.

The hand where both players have one lone king just proves my point. Ok you may say its some deep move, but to me they are probably just inexperienced players who have very little idea what they are doing. I don't try to figure out exactly what every donkey on partypoker has, I know that if I've never seen their name, there is a great chance that real logic just isn't going to apply.

I constantly see people approach these with the assumption that the players are rational or at least close to it, and this I think is the greatest lesson of all. Anyway what I just said sounds pretentious as hell, but too many people give too much respect to their opponents.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it strange that we are asked to guess the holding of someone who "can't believe they are folding the nut flush draw here".

[/ QUOTE ]

huh ?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find it strange that we are asked to guess the holding of someone who "can't believe they are folding the nut flush draw here".

[/ QUOTE ]

huh ?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I wrote that real fast and then made a long edit. My point is that you ask us "what does so and so have". Meanwhile its clear from the comment that the player made, that they are almost surely a very poor poker player. I mean they could have really almost anything.

Anyway I guess it all comes down to what Harrington said and what may be the most important part of both of his books. When analyzing these situations against unknown players, you need to give a range that includes at least a decent percentage of total garbage or ridiculous hands. Meaning you can't just assume your opponent is rational, is thinking rationally from a poker standpoint or plays well at all. I feel like a lot of pepole approach these questions with the mindset of "What would I have if I was that player", which seems silly to me.

I know this when someone posts like 2 possible hands that the player could have and both of them are the nuts or close to it.

Hope this was somewhat coherent, rushing to write it while playing a bunch of games.

[iloseulose]

hand 1: i think the SB's raise was perfect - to 3x the reraise. i guess the button was either semi-bluffing with a fd or had 2p.
hand 2: i am ALMOST speechless..KTs and KQo..wtf!! i am stunned the way both of them played this, but i think its safe to say EP is a complete donk. if he simply raised more on the river that pot is his for sure, and this would make him my new hero..but as we know, this isnt the case. MP has 4-1 odds to call so its an obvious call

[iloseulose]

oh yea...great hands, sirio. good stuff

[adanthar]

Haha, hand 2 makes me look dumb. Oh well.

Anyone like a turn check by EP in Hand 1?

[snagglepuss]

bimo curtains. but i still get a kick out of it.

[curtains]

bimo!!!!!!!!!!!!! whats that mean?

[sirio11]

I agree with you Curtains. In fact the kind of player I think I have the most problem to play with is the one who make moves with a random number generator. Pretty hard to read them, if they don't even know what they're doing.

Having said that, I think there is some rationale in the plays made in the river by the 2 players in hand #2.