Reject the 'Anarchist' Voters

[AlexM]

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Some people just prefer to live in the real world rather than fantasy land.

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What do you mean, AlexM?

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1. Voting doesn't support the state, it's simply a weapon (although admittedly a damned crappy one).

2. We aren't going to see anarchy in our lifetimes. The vast majority of people simply don't want it and are even too stupid/brainwashed to even understand it beyond "OMG chaos!!!" Just talking about it is never going to convince these people.

3. Working with the system is the only real means to enact change in our favor at this time. Will it get us what we really want? No, but then nothing we do will. It can, however, make things a little bit better, and considering how much the rest of society is against us, "a little bit better" is all we can realistically expect.

[pvn]

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I'm not so sure of this. If 65% of the people don't want a state, but you only "count" the votes of the other 35% then the rule of majority through representatives of the minority will still persist.

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There may be some majority but if the balance did move to this ratio the influence of the state would start diminishing very rapidly. People would basically be in open defiance of the state in many, many areas. Once that ball gets rolling, it will be very difficult to stop.

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Now, you may say "but if 65% of the population doesn't want a government then they'll just use their collective force to overcome the power of the government". But in that case, you are still asserting yourself and forcing others to involuntarily disband their state.

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There are two ways to look at this:

1) A man is quietly stealing from me in order to feed his habits at the pony track. I finally discover his theft, and take measures to prevent it. Am I "forcing" him to disband his pony habit? Perhaps. But since he wasn't entitled to the resources he was using to feed that habit, he can't legitimately object.

2) Same situation; of course, he's still free to continue his habit, he just has to find some other way to pay for it.

Refusing to be imposed upon is not an imposition upon others. These other people's "moral codes" don't change this at all. If there is a conflict between two people with different "moral codes" the only way to consistently proceed is to either

1) get voluntary consent from both parties before an interaction proceeds (assuming both are in equal moral classes)

2) demonstrate that one party is in a superior moral class to the other, and therefore does not need consent to initiate the transaction

3) not interact

[pvn]

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Also, the more people decide to not vote, the more likely we turn into a tyranny of a minority.

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It depends. Do they still believe in the state and are just too lazy/uninterested in the differences between candidates to vote? Or do they actually believe that the state is unnecessary, counterproductive, morally objectionable?

[mosdef]

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Borodog has a gun. Borodog is not a murderer or a thief. The gun is for defensive purposes. He will only use it when someone else is trying to hurt him or take his property.

Borodog is not forcing his moral compass onto anyone. He intends to stop others from doing just that onto him and his family.

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I disagree. If someone's personal moral code says that humanity has an obligation to have a state and that all humans have an obligation to contribute to the state, if Boro uses his violent force to prevent them from acting on that moral principle then he is imposing his morality on them. You are still saying "In my moral code it is immoral for someone to take my things, and therefore if all I am doing is defending my things then that's not imposition of morality" which is clearly false, IMO.

[Kaj]

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Ruling class sycophants are not our friends!

For those of you who argue that Rothbard himself was engaged in the political process, that may be so, but ...

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LOL. Convenient exceptionaments.

[ShakeZula06]

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Borodog has a gun. Borodog is not a murderer or a thief. The gun is for defensive purposes. He will only use it when someone else is trying to hurt him or take his property.

Borodog is not forcing his moral compass onto anyone. He intends to stop others from doing just that onto him and his family.

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I disagree. If someone's personal moral code says that humanity has an obligation to have a state and that all humans have an obligation to contribute to the state, if Boro uses his violent force to prevent them from acting on that moral principle then he is imposing his morality on them. You are still saying "In my moral code it is immoral for someone to take my things, and therefore if all I am doing is defending my things then that's not imposition of morality" which is clearly false, IMO.

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If someones moral code validates aggression then I'm not violating his moral code by doing anythng he percieves to be aggression.

[mosdef]

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There may be some majority but if the balance did move to this ratio the influence of the state would start diminishing very rapidly. People would basically be in open defiance of the state in many, many areas. Once that ball gets rolling, it will be very difficult to stop.

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I agree that the collective force of the majority would be hard to stop. How does that make it "more just" than the current majority being unstopable, unless you happen to agree with the moral code of that future hypothetical majority?

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Refusing to be imposed upon is not an imposition upon others. These other people's "moral codes" don't change this at all.

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No, this is wrong. You are defining imposition within your own moral code and then saying it's not an imposition for when you act on your moral code because it doesn't violate the terms of your moral code. This is circular. If you stick to this, then you must also grant me the moral authority to say "In my moral code the state is not an imposition because participation is a moral obligation. Therefore when I collect taxes with force it's not imposition because it's not imposition under my moral code."

[hmkpoker]

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These so-called "Anarchists" are as dogs, who first raise their right paw and pretend to be one of us, saying "democracy is immoral" and "disengagement is the way," and then, when the ruling class waves a shiny new bone at them, run after the bone, barking the slogans of their temporary masters, fighting against everything we hold dear. They no doubt expect that, the elections over and their ruling class politician having lost, they will reintegrate our movement, proud of "having done something," when all they did was legitimize democracy!


We must send a clear message to all that Anarchists are above this den of violence and corruption called politics, and that we will have nothing of it. These voters can be called our sympathizers, sure; but do not let them call themselves Anarchists any longer. Ruling class sycophants are not our friends!

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Translation: I've never kissed a girl.

[Nielsio]

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These so-called "Anarchists" are as dogs, who first raise their right paw and pretend to be one of us, saying "democracy is immoral" and "disengagement is the way," and then, when the ruling class waves a shiny new bone at them, run after the bone, barking the slogans of their temporary masters, fighting against everything we hold dear. They no doubt expect that, the elections over and their ruling class politician having lost, they will reintegrate our movement, proud of "having done something," when all they did was legitimize democracy!


We must send a clear message to all that Anarchists are above this den of violence and corruption called politics, and that we will have nothing of it. These voters can be called our sympathizers, sure; but do not let them call themselves Anarchists any longer. Ruling class sycophants are not our friends!

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Translation: I've never kissed a girl.

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I don't understand what you mean.

[jogger08152]

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Do people convinced of the illegitimacy of the State participate in its processes?

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Of course, I can't speak for everybody, but *you* participate.

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