What to do on the turn? - Page 3

drewjustdrew · #21 05-21-2007, 02:31 PM

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FWIW, here recently I was in almost in the same situation in the same casino but I flopped the nut straight w/2 spades & had to shove (about $250ish) on the flop in a 4 way pot to get the flush draws to fold. Then they had to think it over for a while!!!

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They know you've got a 10% chance to be bluffing and their overcards may be additional outs! They may just be ahead right now!

Brad1970 · #22 05-21-2007, 02:32 PM

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I get it all in on the flop here. You really did underbet that flop. Yay 50th post.

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How much should I have bet if it was K-5-2 rainbow?

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I see 2 options & these maybe read dependant.

1. check & re-evaluate the turn
2. make a small continuation bet, like you're scared of the flop to induce a bluff/bet from the case K.

4_2_it · #23 05-21-2007, 02:45 PM

This is fine to post in SSNL or uNL.

With a flush draw and about a pot sized bet left, I am shoving this flop. The turn/river is not likely to make either villain a 2nd best hand so either they stack off with a draw or a worse hand or you win a nice sized pot.

If the board was an uncoordinated rainbow, I guess you could donk bet or check depending on your reads on the villains.

atrainpsu · #24 05-21-2007, 03:28 PM

I would almost never push this flop. While I'd rather run into AK or a smaller set, I don't mind getting called by a flush draw. Are you guys forgetting that a flush is like 5:1 to hit on turn? If it hits, oh well...you're still only 3:1 to resuckout. If it doesn't hit you push the turn, and they call. Playing the hand this way, your stack is $750 80% of the time and 0 20%. If pushing the flop gets them to fold, your stack is $350 100%. Therefore pushing out the flushdraws loses you about $250 in equity.

NicksDad1970 · #25 05-21-2007, 03:41 PM

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I would almost never push this flop. While I'd rather run into AK or a smaller set, I don't mind getting called by a flush draw. Are you guys forgetting that a flush is like 5:1 to hit on turn? If it hits, oh well...you're still only 3:1 to resuckout. If it doesn't hit you push the turn, and they call. Playing the hand this way, your stack is $750 80% of the time and 0 20%. If pushing the flop gets them to fold, your stack is $350 100%. Therefore pushing out the flushdraws loses you about $250 in equity.

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I did want calls on the flop, that is until I saw the turn [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

I think with my stack size it makes this hand harder to figure out. I really don't think it would have made a difference had I bet say 150 on the flop. I think that not just on a read of these 2 fellas but the amount they're risking.

Had I had 1k behind their nuts might have drawn up a bit. One thing I'm a little surprised noone has commented on was after I went all in and the SB reraised all in for a few hundred more why the BB called with Js8s.

I guess it surprised me because he instacalled. I can't believe I just said instacalled.

Brad1970 · #26 05-21-2007, 03:55 PM

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I would almost never push this flop. While I'd rather run into AK or a smaller set, I don't mind getting called by a flush draw. Are you guys forgetting that a flush is like 5:1 to hit on turn? If it hits, oh well...you're still only 3:1 to resuckout. If it doesn't hit you push the turn, and they call. Playing the hand this way, your stack is $750 80% of the time and 0 20%. If pushing the flop gets them to fold, your stack is $350 100%. Therefore pushing out the flushdraws loses you about $250 in equity.

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I did want calls on the flop, that is until I saw the turn [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

I think with my stack size it makes this hand harder to figure out. I really don't think it would have made a difference had I bet say 150 on the flop. I think that not just on a read of these 2 fellas but the amount they're risking.

Had I had 1k behind their nuts might have drawn up a bit. One thing I'm a little surprised noone has commented on was after I went all in and the SB reraised all in for a few hundred more why the BB called with Js8s.

I guess it surprised me because he instacalled. I can't believe I just said instacalled.

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The one with J8s should have known he was beat. With 2 AI in front of me, I'd muck this. Of course, I'd probably not play J8 OOP for a raise either.

But, this just strengthens what I said earlier about any 2 suited cards would do.

iron81 · #27 05-21-2007, 04:21 PM

I think I might check the turn. Without doing the math, a shove is only EV+ if the flush is out less than 60% the time unless they both call the shove. Of course, if they both call the turn shove one of them has a flush better than %75. With two flop calls, I think one of them has the flush a lot and are "checking to the raiser". I know a turn shove is the obvious play, but I don't know if its the correct play.

Flame on.

badhandoop · #28 05-21-2007, 04:36 PM

So there is $170 in the pot on the flop and you have $170. Given the preflop action and your stack size, shoving is the optimal play. For typical B&M live 1-2, you are getting called by hands you crush anyway AK, KQ, K5s, etc.

I don't think you would've won the hand though. In the games I play, NFD usually calls a pot bet there with a non paired board.

tuq · #29 05-21-2007, 04:45 PM

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I assume this was at the Goldstrike?? or Horseshoe?? Folks in our area luv them some sooooted cards!!! Any 2 will do.

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LOL, I took some donk buddies of mine out to CAZ once, late at night a few of us occupied most the seats at a limit table. I get aces and three-bet it, two spades come on the flop, including the ace, making me a set. I cap this and the turn, with one friend sticking around. A spade comes on the river, he bets out, I call, sick to my stomach, and he was honestly confused as to why I didn't raise just like every previous round as he tabled his K-4 of spades. K-4 of effing spades. Sooted cards are pretty to some, no doubt. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

NicksDad1970 · #30 05-21-2007, 04:50 PM

Here's another hand from the other night.

After a straddle I raise from late MP to 18 with 79os and only the SB and BB calling the straddle. The button calls and everyone else folds. So it's heads up since I'm making this so confusing.

I have about $500 and he has me covered.

The flop was 7-3-Q. I bet 25 into a $48 pot, hoping to end it right there. He thinks for about 3 seconds and calls. The turn is another 7. I bet $65 and he calls. No FD's out there. The river is and ace.

Now this guy is kind of tricky and pretty good. I was pretty sure I was ahead but I wasn't sure enough to risk my whole stack. I didn't want to check to him because if he had a strong hand I didn't want him betting so much that I felt I had to call but not enough where I was supposed to fold.

After I bet the flop I thought he had a Q like maybe KQ or even AQ. So I was ready to give up. I loved the turn obviously and wanted to suck him in for all I could. But something about the way he called the turn scared me pretty bad.

How bad did I play it?