3-bet the Turn with KK on a draw heavy board.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
ok people,
another question is what to do when BB calls 3 cold and UTG caps the turn.

Fold because we only have one out against a set (if BB has hearts)
or
Call because a few cards might help us win this big pot(like the 5c)
At this I'm getting over 20-1 but I will have to call another bet on the river, so maybe it's really only 10-1.
Is that how I should think about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think this str8forward player is capping the turn with 2 pair?

With the guy coldcalling the 3 bets, you have likely one out.

I'd fold to the cap.


b

[lil']

I understand the rationale behind waiting until the turn to raise, but you can't know for sure if they will bet into you again.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the rationale behind waiting until the turn to raise, but you can't know for sure if they will bet into you again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes you have to take that chance. The closer to the button, the less likely they may bet into you. This guy is betting into a PFR and a PF3 bettor. He's expecting to get raised. Very good chance he'll bet again on the turn OR if he doesn't, that the MP will given you played your hand like AK.

Yes, sometimes they will check on the turn. It will happen sometimes. Thems the breaks/


b

[Grease]

I'm going to throw my lot in with Bernie, and say I really like it.

The first time I read it, I didn't realize how coordinated the board was, but realizing how many turn cards could kill your hand made me realize that waiting is optimal.

Anyone that is advocating for a flop raise, please don't say it's to "charge draws." It's for value, plain and simple. You have the best hand; you will win a majority of the time, and you are simply making money by raising with the best hand.

However, given the way the action went, I think that waiting until the turn to raise could further increase your EV, because when you dodge a scary turn card, your equity goes up even higher, and the bet sizes double. MP could be doing the same thing you are with a smaller overpair (less likely now that the Q hit, but he could easily have AQ in this instance if he's loose) and you shouldn't let a wierd raise stop you from following through on your original plan.

Now, a cap makes our position a little more tricky. If you think that someone would cap the turn with a raggedy two pair, you are obliged to call, but if you think you're against a set or a straight...well, I'd have a hard time advocating a fold in a pot this huge (and I don't think I could bring myself to fold the turn), but you should probably entertain the probability of folding the river UI if capped on the turn.

[brick]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have a hard time advocating a fold in a pot this huge (and I don't think I could bring myself to fold the turn), but you should probably entertain the probability of folding the river UI if capped on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's take some balls of steal to call the turn and fold the river in a 20+BB pot.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have a hard time advocating a fold in a pot this huge (and I don't think I could bring myself to fold the turn), but you should probably entertain the probability of folding the river UI if capped on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's take some balls of steal to call the turn and fold the river in a 20+BB pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when their hands are almost face up. How could you possibly think KK is good on the river UI?

b

[Joe Tall]

I'd like this line better if the BB bet.

[James.]

as played insta3bet.

i don't mind the flop/turn line at all. i'm usually raising the flop, but not all the time. as someone else already said, i would prefer it if it was actually BB that was betting, but this is fine.

[UtzChips]

The only way you had a chance of getting someone to fold on the Turn was for the betting to go the way it did, with your 3-bet.
If you had the best hand on the Flop, the other 3 needed 24 cummulative outs to make you a money dog.
Rather than call the Flop, in the hopes the betting goes as it did on the Turn, I raise the Flop unless a tell from an opponent says "flopped str8 or set."