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#22
03-05-2007, 11:32 AM
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Thoughts
So I did in fact bet. The next guy called and I got two folds. The river was some offsuit queen and I bet and got called and MHIG and Justin does what he does every orbit we play together and gives me a stupid look and tells me I'm burning money.
Starting with preflop. I can't believe this is a debate. The raiser is 4 off the button. Plus, at a time like this, where I'm sure some of the thinking players are considering filing me under R for Retarded, I WANT to reinforce my maniacal image. It's great for metagame going forward. AJ is an auto-raise. KQ and AT is where I start wondering at what price I'll buy advertised insanity. As far as the flop goes, I'm with people on the check train if it's something like J92dd or even J82dd. On this flop, there's too many hands folding. 14:1 is just too good not to take a stab. The CO is new to the game, but he's cold-called my raises a couple times in the first orbit or two since he sat down. I don't know how much of his range here is AK/AQ, but I want him super-uncomfy in case he has a hand like that. The button is awful all the time but sometimes he lo(o)ses his mind, and I think there is a strong positive correlation between him going off the reservation and me putting lots of chips in the pot pre-flop. An hour ago, he and I played a pot where he capped 74o preflop three ways and proceeded to play bottom pair like it was the nuts. I'd give more examples, but I didn't see any of the other hands we played together by this point. He needs to be put in his place, specifically by me. Sorry for posting all this new info. I posted the hand from my phone while at the table. I wonder if that changes anyone's mind? Anywho, on to the turn. Firstly, how can everyone be so sure that I'm crushed here? The button maybe maybe maybe has a duece (or some random 9), but any other possible hand that is beating me wakes up either preflop or on the flop. The other two haven't made a move to protect a good hand in a big pot...is it too hard to fathom that maybe they don't have pairs yet either? I'm not delusional enough to think that I'm winning this pot on the turn often enough to justify the bet, but I think I can make someone fold and I take good old 2nd-nut-nuthin to the river against a couple hands with a diamond in them. I just think great things happen when I bet. 
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#23
03-05-2007, 11:36 AM
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Re: The Doug Show
Meh...anytime I value-bluff the river in a huge pot with ace high and then call the river raise and get shown the nuts, my poker friends stop calling me to hang out. I don't think there's much of a question that I played it right.
Though, I guess the turn play might be debateable, considering the feedback I've gotten on this hand. I just noticed the parallels now. Either way, my poor little ego is now in shambles from this hand. It'll take a while before I post another debacle. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#26
03-05-2007, 03:11 PM
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Re: Thoughts
[ QUOTE ]
Starting with preflop. I can't believe this is a debate. The raiser is 4 off the button. Plus, at a time like this, where I'm sure some of the thinking players are considering filing me under R for Retarded, I WANT to reinforce my maniacal image. It's great for metagame going forward. AJ is an auto-raise. KQ and AT is where I start wondering at what price I'll buy advertised insanity. As far as the flop goes, I'm with people on the check train if it's something like J92dd or even J82dd. On this flop, there's too many hands folding. 14:1 is just too good not to take a stab. The CO is new to the game, but he's cold-called my raises a couple times in the first orbit or two since he sat down. I don't know how much of his range here is AK/AQ, but I want him super-uncomfy in case he has a hand like that. The button is awful all the time but sometimes he lo(o)ses his mind, and I think there is a strong positive correlation between him going off the reservation and me putting lots of chips in the pot pre-flop. An hour ago, he and I played a pot where he capped 74o preflop three ways and proceeded to play bottom pair like it was the nuts. I'd give more examples, but I didn't see any of the other hands we played together by this point. He needs to be put in his place, specifically by me. [/ QUOTE ] This is all well thought out and solid. I'm not sure about the turn though, because you only have 4 outs against someone if someone has a pair. I suppose we could put hand ranges on the two loose players and calculate the % of the time that one of them will have you beat on the river.
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#27
03-05-2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: Thoughts
so you played good... and got there. Please tell me you said something like, "I didn't need to hit that Queen, did I?"
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#28
03-05-2007, 08:13 PM
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Re: Thoughts
Can't speak for that game, but here in L.A., nobody's folding to your flop bet no matter what they have. Nobody. Two guys from the Pai Gow table are calling.
On the turn, it's Vegas and you 3-bet pre-flop. They put you on A-A and just call down with A-J. Then again, it's Vegas and they don't raise very much. On balance, I agree with the look Justin gave you on the turn. I was just trying to remember how many times I've seen two guys cold call three pre-flop and I can only remember once. So maybe my advice against Mr. 7-4 and the rest of these guys doesn't mean much. I once raised with K-8s first in on the button in Vegas and about two hours later, when I raised the turn, a guys says, "Oh, Mr. K-8 is speaking again." I guess I'm in foreign territory here.
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#30
03-05-2007, 09:45 PM
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Re: The Doug Show
[ QUOTE ]
I would not bet the turn,but I feel that I may not be correct in this action. The turn bet has a good chance to lose the pre-flop raiser if he has AK. [/ QUOTE ] AK is a pretty small part of his range considering the lack of a 4bet, and his opening range is pretty wide to begin with.
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