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#21
02-19-2007, 09:37 AM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Please fold the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Remember that I'm getting 11:1 immediate to call the turn with the possibility that he's raising for a free showdown. [/ QUOTE ] None of the people I would call a rock has ever raised for a free showdown. They have always had me drawing dead when some other poor soul has been in the pot and made it to showdown so that I got to see their hand when the action goes anything like this. If you want to be generous you can add AK or KQs to his range of hands, not just sets, so while you have outs, you certainly do not have enough to call. 
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#22
02-19-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
Remember that when you bet the turn,you don't look like a K since you didn't raise the flop.He could be raising the turn with a weaker hand.I would not fold the turn.I would just call down.
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#23
02-19-2007, 01:50 PM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes out K J 5. I have no heart. SB bets, BB calls, limpers fold, I decide to call and raise many turn cards. Button calls. [/ QUOTE ] i've always been a big advocate against this line in this spot for two reasons. a) what is the likelyhood of him betting again into the field on the turn with a hand you beat? too often when you raise "most good cards" you are going to be raising with the worse hand in this spot against a lot of players. combined that with b) hope to knock out the button and gain position in the hand. that says as played i would fold to the turn raise given your description of him. people raising for free showdowns online was overblown imo and it is almost non-existent in live games vs old gentlemen rocks.
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#24
02-19-2007, 02:08 PM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Please fold the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Remember that I'm getting 11:1 immediate to call the turn with the possibility that he's raising for a free showdown. [/ QUOTE ] None of the people I would call a rock has ever raised for a free showdown. They have always had me drawing dead when some other poor soul has been in the pot and made it to showdown so that I got to see their hand when the action goes anything like this. If you want to be generous you can add AK or KQs to his range of hands, not just sets, so while you have outs, you certainly do not have enough to call. [/ QUOTE ] We have what all of the regulars consider as "The Roc" in our local games. He not only would raise for the free showdown, but occassionally open/raises UTG with 98s, 55 and plays them like they were aces. And then, when he takes the pot after everyone who dared to challenge him at the beginning, mucks, shows, getting more action in the future. Profitable Rocs cannot play ABC Poker, as they would go broke, or bore themselves to death making 1/2 BB per 1 1/2 hrs [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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#26
02-19-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
In the california games i play, which are the same ones joker plays, raising for a free showdown in this situation is common. i.e., the only one who has bet/raised pre-flop and flop checks the turn. So fighting for this large pot via a protection raise/free showdown raise is common.
PITS
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#27
02-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: How many ways did I butcher KT?
[ QUOTE ]
In the california games i play, which are the same ones joker plays, raising for a free showdown in this situation is common. i.e., the only one who has bet/raised pre-flop and flop checks the turn. So fighting for this large pot via a protection raise/free showdown raise is common. PITS [/ QUOTE ] the situation u described is not at all like the hand joker posted and it is not at all common from the type of player joker described. i would never really argue against somebody who made a gut feel play live vs a specific player, but just from what i am being told this isn't the guy who would do that.
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