AKs flop decision

[VORP]

I'm concerned that if we raise CO is going to 3bet a decent amount of the time and lead the turn anyway, which would really suck. An overpair, AT, and two big diamonds all sound like hands an aggro, running hot, guy might b/3b.

[skp]

Given that there are 18 bets in the pot, I think that this is an easy raise. What I have trouble understanding is why guys jam an unimproved Ak in smaller pots. Andy gives the best reason for raising.

[Gabe]

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i don't think raising is as bad as everyone says. actually, i kind of like it.

folding is crazy.

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Gabe, can you lay out some of the benefits you think raising might have?

And yes, folding didn't really cross my mind much. This decision was between calling and raising.

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See Andy's post.

While there might only be a little chance of this or that, a few little chances are all you need in a pot this big.

There's even a little chance that you'll clean up your outs against a runner runner or something.

[CheckRaiseFo]

Forgive me, I am new to mid-limit and still trying to learn about techniques at these stakes...

Is there any chance the CO has KQ or QJ here? If he is loose aggro AND confident because of recent results, wouldn't he be capable of 3-betting with an unpaired hand preflop?

I think it makes the most sense for him to bet into the guy w/ the lead (you) so that you will raise and thin the field for him. He would want this w/ an overpair, any ten (AT/QTs/JTs?) or any two overcards (maybe), but not w/ a flush draw or a set. With a super-strong hand he would ch/raise, right?

Also, the pot is so big that maybe the donk bet is his own desperate attempt to continue to represent strength where he has none.

I think a raise helps more to define where you are, and the information you get (from the EP players) may allow you to release this hand a little earlier than you otherwise would (saving you money if you are crushed but do hit an A). Also, a raise lets you continue to represent a big pair, and maybe the TAG will release top pair or JJ.

My original question... is there any chance CO has KQ here (making the raise a value play)?

[private joker]

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My original question... is there any chance CO has KQ here (making the raise a value play)?

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KQ is definitely in his PF 3-betting range for sure. But I doubt he donks this kind of flop into me with it.

[Godson]

I am also new here, but one thing I know is that keeping the lead in these types of pot's can benefit greatly. So far, CO knows that you have 4bet him PF, that is all he knows, if his range is somewhere along the lines of A10,JJ,QQ,910s,even K10s considering the type of player you describe him ass, if he has half of a brain and you raise him on the flop, his mind may tell him to slow down and u may perhaps have KK AA or 1010.

We must remember what people will know about our hand, the EP's KNOW u 4bet PF, and now are raising the turn, so without a legit shot or draw I think they fold here and thinning the field may work. If it doesnt and they still call, I still believe, considering the history of this hand, that the CO will check to you on the turn if he himself has not got lucky and flopped a set or has AA KK himself.

Hey im probably not entirely correct as I said im new but just thought I'd add some insight in my point of view. I also think calling gives up any chance to win this pot without improvement and relenquishes control to a guy who we know to be a wild player with a range of many hands.

[alphanumerics]

i dont see raising being any good, i think hes donking because hes looking to b/3b with a monster, especially with that many players. what are you lookin to accomplish with a raise, i guess is the question? no pair folds, no draw folds, he 3b and leads turn, you gotta fold. i think you gotta fold any time he leads the turn anyways, unless you pick up a gutshot that doesnt make a flush.

i guess i call and reevaluate on the turn

[Hoi Polloi]

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raising here is awful

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Raising here only makes sense if it thins the field. In this game, that seems very remote, if not beyond consideration.