Interpretation and Religon

[kurto]

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


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John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That clears it up. Clearly the Christians experience God and aren't deluded while people of other Faiths are.

That was so simple.

[bunny]

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


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John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That clears it up. Clearly the Christians experience God and aren't deluded while people of other Faiths are.

That was so simple.

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I wonder if NotReady's point was that relying on personal experience is always going to leave one with this nagging doubt. I have always argued that relying on such experiences is the only rational grounds for theism, given it relies on some evidence, however slender.

In contrast, NotReady adopts the inerrancy and divine authorship of the bible as an axiom. Perhaps this route provides some assurance (to one who accepts this axiom) that they are not deluded.

[kurto]

Using the Bible to prove that your beliefs in the God of the Bible is not a delusion is... delusional.

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[bunny]

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Using the Bible to prove that your beliefs in the God of the Bible is not a delusion is... delusional.

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Internally consistent though - NotReady has acknowledged his belief is circular in the past. He claims (rightly imo) that any basis for human knowledge is circular. If true, this would mean circularity is not in itself grounds to label his beliefs irrational.

I was speculating that his post may have more been an attack on the "personal experience" form of theism which I have defended. It seems his point was that what's "in my heart" is never going to be enough, I need God/Jesus as revealed through the bible to have true belief.

EDIT: In other words it was directed at a believer, not an unbeliever and as such the use of the bible seems more relevant.

[hashi92]

So what about the people during the inquisition who killed thousands of innocent people. where they deluded. im sure they felt god and did what they thought was his will. if the pope the catholic church can be wrong cant everyone else.

[kurto]

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So what about the people during the inquisition who killed thousands of innocent people. where they deluded. im sure they felt god and did what they thought was his will. if the pope the catholic church can be wrong cant everyone else.

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It would appear that many committing horrible acts during the inquisition believed they were acting in accordance with their religious beliefs. They no more considered they were deluded then Muslims on Jihad think they're deluded or the sixty whatever percent of Americans that think the Bible is the literal word of God and that the earth is only a few thousand years old.

[hashi92]

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So what about the people during the inquisition who killed thousands of innocent people. where they deluded. im sure they felt god and did what they thought was his will. if the pope the catholic church can be wrong cant everyone else.

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what happened to all the people and their feelings.