Toney vs Peter 1/6

[Rick305]

TONEY FTW

[MacoAndrej]

what were the odds????????

[Robin Foolz]

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Obviously you did not watch the first fight live, but in no way did Toney dominate enough to earn the victory, but Peter did not dominate either. Both fighters could have made a case for winning that fight. It was a close fight no doubt, but to think that Toney was robbed is redicioulous.

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it's just my opinion, which btw is the same opinion many fans and media people held when they made it perfectly clear they thought toney won. even the wbc agreed, prompting them to mandate for an immediate rematch. any joeblow who doesn't follow boxing can read up on any story about this match and i guarantee you somewhere in that story they will read something along the lines of "the first match was very controversial" or "the scoring in the first match was hotly disputed." this signifies someone got shafted. and that someone was toney.

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The WBC is joke and fraud of a boxing organization. There previous fight was to determine who would fight Oleg, and for some reason Peter won a close fight, a spilt decision, but for some reason they have to do it over again. WHY, Peter won, so what if it was close, this is boxing there are close fights all the time, titles even change hands on close fights. So the WBC claiming bad scoring makes no sense because they appoint the judges so any incompetance should reflect on them. Not to mention their history of making some of the most idiotic moves in boxing is well documented (look at some reasons they have stripped titles from fighters and some mandatorys they have lined up).

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they have to do it again because not even the wbc, who mandated the first match and now the second one, thought peter won. they are trying to right a wrong. there are many incompetent judges in the sport and because of so a lot of fighters get shafted come decision time. the wbc ordering a rematch to this fight shows that they are taking a proactive approach in reversing dubious decisions. this approach (by having the fighters fight again) is better than just reversing or changing official decisions because it lets the fighters in the ring settle this for themselves and not by higher ups.



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Absolutley 5 pounds makes a difference in fighting, even heavyweights. If a fighter can't maintain a weight it shows something about the fighter himself, maybe a lack of training or focus, maybe an injure. In Toney's case he is fighting at a weight already too much from him. Toney's ideal weight is 205 or cruiserweight. I have seen all of his fights in the last 5 years or since his last fight as a cruiser and he looked like a great cruiserweight, but as a heavyweight he looks fat, gassed, and lacking real power.

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toney has proven without a shadow of a doubt that he is a heavyweight. a man that weights consistently over 240+lbs pre-fight should be fighting at heavy, not lower, and especially when you have shown that you belong there. toney has 6 fights at heavy with 4 wins, one draw, only one loss, and one no contest--all against hefty competition. he doesn't belong anywhere else.

btw i was referring to toney when i said the difference is negligible in the heavy weight division. for instance toney dominated holyfield at 217lbs, shutout booker at 227lbs, and convincingly beat guinn at 235lbs. he's been able to dominate no matter his weight.


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Toney's weight is absolutely a concern and will be for as long as he keeps fighting. He will never come in good shape, but he has shown that he doesn't always need to be in the best shape to win, this is one of those times I think he needs to be in good shape.

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if he replaces the fat with lean muscle, what do you think he will start weighing? toney has a lot of fat yes, but he also has a lot of muscle. the excess fat hinders more than it helps i agree, but it's not like he is gonna start weighing in his 210lbs if he gets rid of the fat. that loss of fat will be replaced by more lean muscle, which will keep him hovering around to what he is weighing now since muscle is denser than fat.

[Robin Foolz]

btw if anyone needs something to watch after the nfl games, definitely tune in to this fight come saturday. should be a good one and best of all is not on ppv.

[Diplomat]

Ok I'll watch it. What time?

-Diplomat

[Tuds75]

Robin,

Did you watch the first fight LIVE on Showtime? The decsion is "controversial" because it was close, All close decisions in boxing are controversial. If you didnt watch if live and read about it and then watched it you are bias because you know the outcome. Like I said before I watched the first one live and it was a close fight and I was suprised Peter won, (mostly because I thought if it goes to the cards, Toney is going to win) well I might have been surprised by the outcome, but was not thinking Toney was screwed, Toney just lost a close fight. If Toney would have won the fight, it still would have been a controversial finish because a case could have been made for Peter. Lets not forget That Toney has Don King on his side, funny how even though that fight didn't turn out King's way, his fighters was able to get a rematch even though he lost (I wonder if King played apart in that happening)

Toney fought at middleweight, but was at his best at Super middle weight (168), just because he can eat like a heavyweight and then choose to not lose any weight down not make him a heavyweight. His fight against Holyfield was impressive, but his fight against Booker was a joke. Rydell Booker should not being the same arena as Toney, let alone the same ring, and Toney could not put him away. Beatnig Rydell Booker by DEC is nothing to brag about for Toney. After please don't mention Dominick Guinn as a viable Heavy. He is lost cause in the division. A guy who can only hope to break into the top 10 heavy weights as his biggest future plans. Yuck another average win for Toney. In his fight with Hasim Rahman, if he could have shown up in better shape, he wins, NO DOUBT, but he didn't. This is what James Toney brings to his fights now a days. He is overweight, throws in bunches, when he has the energy, defense is still very good, but he will gas like always.

Please don't get me wrong, Toney is a very good fighter, and I think he can win this fight, absolutely, but I don't think saying "Peter can only win by KO" is accurate because PETER ALREADY BEAT JAMES TONEY BY DECISION (and don't start complaining about bad scoring because this is boxing and you can argue bad scoring in just about every fight, you just take it because it part of the sport).

My pick is Peter and I think a late round, 11th stoppage. Toney gasses, Peter is then able to catch him with a big punch, to weaken him and then finishes a wounded Toney off (and the don't be surprised if Toney gets hit behind the head somewhere in there). But a Peter DEC is also very possible.

Tuds

[Robin Foolz]

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Robin,

Did you watch the first fight LIVE on Showtime? Lets not forget That Toney has Don King...

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yep i watched it live on showtime. and have since recorded it and watched it again many times. i have watched boxing for over 10 yrs, and with the help of camera angles, replays, box stats when watching them on tv, i feel i have a pretty good idea of what's happening inside the ring. most people shared my opinion of toney winning, and so did the wbc which is why they ordered an immediate rematch only weeks after the first fight. yep close decisions or controversial decisions happen all the time in boxing. they come and go, but this one didn't, this wasn't close. this one was different. this time people clearly thought one fighter won over the other very clearly, hence the wbc making a very rare move by ordering this rematch. they themselves thought the first fight needed to be 'corrected' per say not because the first fight was close, but because one fighter so clearly won over the other yet still lost.

btw, lou duva, peter's promoter, sold 50% of his promotional company to donk king. they are equal partners now. while toney's promoter, dan goosen, on the other hand only has a limited association with donk king (to have toney on showtime instead of hbo). which fighter is more in league with donk king?


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Toney fought at middleweight, but was at his...

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the fact that he walks around 240+lbs and fights at 230+lbs is what makes toney a heavyweight. i don't see how you can try to dispute this. if you walk around as a heavyweight and fight weighing this heavy, that makes you a heavyweight. toney will never weigh below the heavyweight limit at this point in his career.

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His fight against Holyfield was...

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i agree or some points and disagree on others. but opinions on fighting performances are subjective. and hence why i welcome people to make their own opinions about the performances in question by watching them themselves.


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Please don't get me wrong, Toney is a...

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i understand that you admire toney's skills and feel he is selling himself short at winning by not coming in at what you feel is his best possible shape.

i said peter only wins by ko based on what i saw in the first fight (and taking into account the other fights peter and toney have fought) for myself and not based on the scores/outcome. i thought toney outpointed peter decisively in the first, saw how bad a fighter peter is and saw how incredibly bad he looks versus a slick fighter like toney, and thought the only way peter wins against toney is to win via a miracle tko/ko. i was shocked they gave peter the decision at the end, of course. since toney was clearly the better fighter. i see this fight as aa (toney) vs kk peter preflop a hundred times over. toney has all the boxing skill in the world and peter has zero boxing skill. and since this is boxing and not a strongman contest, toney will hands down win the majority of times.

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My pick is Peter...

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i'm hoping for a strong ref like jay nady to warn peter of the rabbit punching. i don't think peter does this on purpose; he is so raw, undisciplined, and so inaccurate with his punches that a lot of his punches can land anywhere on a fighter's body, including the back of the head. with him, it's like sending dummy missiles instead of guided missiles at the target. still, he has to be warned as hitting behind the head is illegal due to the severe harm it can cause the brain.

oh, btw. im watching this fight live (as in i'll be in attendance @ the seminole hard rock). perhaps i'll come back to give a 'live' breakdown.

[Robin Foolz]

1.6.2007 10:00 pm ET/PT on showtime

btw, these are highlights of the final press conference and of the weight-in. toney has a lot to say lol, as he always does. good job by him in hyping this fight.

video is on middle of page

[Tuds75]

Robin,

The only thing that bothered me with your original statment is saying "Peter can only win by KO". Maybe I am misenterperting what you typed. Maybe you meant to say something like. "In this fight I believe that Peter is going to have to stop Toney because Toney is in better shape then before and will be more effective during this bout"

I guess what you said before just seemed like a comment a new-to-boxing-rube was spout off. Peter can be Toney if it goes to the cards, only because it has happened. Hey I was totally shocked when Peter was announced the winner of the first fight. Truly did not see that one coming.

Please don't keep saying Toney was robbed or the scoring was horrible. Showtimes' announce team, which top notch, even said it was a close fight and nobody thinks Toney was robbed on account of bad scoring. The first fight will not go down in anyone's "Biggest Screw Jobs in Boxing History". SHoot a bigger scoring problem is Kassim Ouma getting more then 1 maybe 2 rounds on the judges cards in his December fight against Jermain Taylor. I dare anyone to show me 3 rounds Ouma won in that fight, and some judges gave Ouma 4-5 rounds. That is BAD scoring.

The same way you think Peter has to win by KO, I think Toney can only win by DEC, and seeing Toney KO Peter would be about as surprising as seeing Peter win the DEC over Toney (fight I)

Tuds

[Tuds75]

It turn out that Jay "Early Stoppage" Nady (as I and Zab Judah like to call him) will not be referring this fight like intial reported. Jorge Alonso will be the third man in the ring tomorrow night.

I guess that is good for anybody who has the OVER or the NO KO, TKO, DQ Prop because Jay Nady is not afraid to jump in at the first signs of trouble for a fighter.

* For the record I whole-heartly agree with Nadys stop on Judah against Kotsya Tszyu.

Tuds