The "Ghost" extra chips in the WSOP ME

[Shorty35]

At least up to and including Day 3, there was no "independent" verification of chip counts; for obvious practical reasons. Meaning that if someone added their end of day chips incorrectly, it was reported incorrectly. Obviously this error would correct iteself as the number of players shrink so it could explain some of the error on the earlier days but not the ending chip count.

[Vee Quiva]

Someday, when it finally becomes cheap enough, all the chips will have tiny microchips in them. Then Cardplayer and the rest of the world will have accurate chip counts.

I know that some casinos already use these fancy chips at their table games.

They should also give every entrant a chip or smart card so that when they bust, they are scanned out and they can keep better track of what place everyone finishes in. This is similar to what they do in marathons to keep track of everyone's time.

Hey Quiet Lion....I hear you're a smart guy and wrote a little program for Microsoft that did pretty well. Can't you make this for the casinos and make a 2nd Billion dollars for yourself? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[MrFizzbin]

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You need at least half the value of the bigger chip to bring in an extra one.

QL

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No you dont. In a chip race all you need is 1 extra chip per table to bring in an extra chip. Example at a table of 10, 3 people have odd chips. One has 3, another has 3 and a last has 1. Regardless of who wins 2 chips will be added. if the 2 three chippers win, then only $25 of value are added to the tournament. If the 3 and the 1 win then $75 of value are added but regardless 1 extra chip is added.

Each table gets AT MOST 1 more chip per table, per color up. so a formula for approximating "maximum possible color up value added" is

#of tables @ the times of color up * value of the chip being colored up to + Previous Maximum colorup value added.

This formula is not exact, but give an approximate # of value added. Anything over the number from this formula is due to cheating.

The only way to determine the exact value added per color up level would be to get the rounding error at each table.

But it is important to undrestand that Chip races award 1 extra chip per level FOR ANY ODD CHIPS not just 50% of the value of the new chip so @ the 25-100, if there is 1 odd chip 1 @ a table an extra $100 chip is added. @ the 100-500 level if there is 1 odd chip an extra $500 chip is added... @ the 1000-5000 level if there is an extra 1000 chip an extra $5k chip is added....

Remember Players move so just getting an even distribution at the start is an in correct assumption because they way players break could cause tables to get extra chips that wouldnt other wise get them if everybody played together the whole way...

[Jooka]

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Gross negligence or cheating are the only explanations.

QL


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Id bet a little of both.

[Quiet Lion]

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No you dont. In a chip race all you need is 1 extra chip per table to bring in an extra chip.

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I don't believe that is accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_race

[dogdrool]

Man, this is confusing. I will say my initial reaction to Phil Gordon saying, "it only amounts to 4%" was "wow, 4% seems like a LOT." I hope some braniac posts a really good explanation of this -- it's interesting.

[The4Aces]

Did Men the Master play this tournamnet?

[Kevmath]

John Grooms regarding 2006 WSOP ME Chip Counts

John Grooms regarding 2005 WSOP ME Chip Counts

It seems that in a departure from last year, 200 dead stacks were blinded off.

BJ Nemeth also posted his thoughts on this Here, here, and here.

[AngusThermopyle]

If the difference was due to missing players, players who were blinded out and allowed a second day because of HET screw-ups, etc...the diffference would be in the ending Day 5 counts cited above. There is a small overage.

The main difference seems to have happened during Day 7 (see above). $2M.

Hard to sneak that many chips into the game.

But if they screwed up one of the color-ups, it is possible.
Like giving a stack $25K chips for every 4 stacks of $5K chips. TD has a brain lock and thinks it is 1 for 4 instead of 1 for 5.
Or somehow leaves a rack of $25K chips. $2.5M.
Everybody busy, not paying attention.

Cheating? Doubtful.
Screw-up? Probable.

Either way, HET/WSOP should address the problem instead of just waving their hands and saying "chip races".

[MrFizzbin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No you dont. In a chip race all you need is 1 extra chip per table to bring in an extra chip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe that is accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_race

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Wiki Entry:
"In the event the remaining smaller chips do not add up to a whole larger chip, an extra larger chip should be added as long as the leftover smaller chips total more than half a single larger chip."

TDA rules state:
"When it is time to color-up chips, they will be raced off with a maximum of one chip going to any player. The chip race will always start in the No.1 seat. A player cannot be raced out of a tournament. In the event that a player has only one chip left, the regular race procedure will take place. If that player loses the race, he will be given one chip of the smallest denomination still in play."

There is no mention in the TDA rules about a 50% barrier being required and all the casino's that I've played in have rounded up. I'm kind of a chip race whore (I love chip races) and watch them all the time. Its easier for the TD's and dealers to just add the chip than to try and hold some 50% barrier and then try to explain this to a player who feels he missed out. Where is Johnny Groom when we need him.....