Mansion Deals Exact Same Hand 3 Minutes Apart (hand histories inc)

[BOTW]

Peter, if they deal out nine hands and then distribute them to the players, tossing out any left overs, it looks the same to me.

dguild, post the emails here.

Edit: If they are doing something like XORing the RN with the entropy, and the entropy is 0, you get the RN back again. If the RNG gets the same seed on reboot, you get the same RN--> same deck. I think that's how it would work.

[Benholio]

Obviously not a RNG error, its a handmade action flop!

[dguild]

[ QUOTE ]


dguild, post the emails here.



[/ QUOTE ]


After the below string of e-mails, I enlisted the help of someone I hoped would have some sway with them. Unfortunately she never heard anything from them. Finally I wrote them saying I had no other choice but to post my story on the various boards over the weekend they couldn't send me the hand history. This finally spurred Mansion to dig it up for me.

>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: RE: Your Mansion Account (Poker Issue)
>Date: 1 Aug 2006 11:08:18 +0000
>
>
>Hello dguild,
>
>
>
>
>
>Further to our recent email.
>
>
>
>We have been back in touch with our Poker Department and they assure us the matter was taken very seriously and our Technical Department is looking into the matter further.
>
>
>
>Unfortunately we will be unable to provide you with any hand histories for any hand in which you were not involved as MANSION are obliged to keep all our members information secure.
>
>
>
>The poker works on a highly sophisticated Random Number Generator (RNG) and is designed to deal each and every hand randomly. As there are many hands being dealt on the site at any one given time the randomness and actual possibility of two exact hands being dealt around the same time is unlikely but certainly not impossible.
>
>
>
>MANSION thank you once again for bringing this to our attention, we can assure all your comments have been noted and taken into consideration.
>
>
>
>If you have any further queries or require any assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
>
>
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>
>
>Dan
>
>
>
>MANSION Member Services
>
>
>
>www.mansion.com
>
>
>
>"Where The World Plays"
>
>
>
>Email: [email protected]
>
>
>
>Tel: +350 41000
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[THREAD ID:1-6IGXC]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>Sent: 8/1/2006 01:57:17 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Your Mansion Account (Poker Issue)
>
>Thank you for the reply, but this is not an acceptable resolution. I gave
>you a range of 250 hands it could be in. At the very least, send me the hand
>results for these 250 hands and I'll find it for you. The last thing I want
>to do is make a ruckus on the forums, but you leave me no other option with
>a flat refusal to help any further in finding this hand. I'm not asking to
>see peoples' hole cards, just the board and hands shown. I would think you'd
>be jumping at the opportunity to find a glitch in your software.
>
>
>
>
> >From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Your Mansion Account (Poker Issue)
> >Date: 31 Jul 2006 19:52:01 +0000
> >
> >
> >Hello dguild,
> >
> >We have received an answer from our poker department;
> >
> >We have searched for the exact hand and have been unable to locate it.
> >Having checked the account for The Player: Cap , we can see that this payer
> >did not appear to have played on table 0518 on July 28th, unless of course
> >he was at the table as an observer.
> >In any case, there are thousands of hands which are being dealt at any one
> >given time and it may be likely that the same or if not very similar
> >community cards can appear at any 2 tables whether at the same or different
> >times. Unfortunately since we cannot locate the exact hand we cannot offer
> >a precise explanation as to whether this claim definately occurred or not.
> >
> >I'm sorry that this was not the resolution you were expecting however if
> >you or another member comes accross this or any other problems or issues
> >in future if you can get as much info as possible surrounding the issue
> >then it woill be easy to investigate.
> >
> >Thank you for choosing MANSION, we look forward to being your choice for
> >premium gaming entertainment online.
> >
> >
> >
> >Should you request further assistance with this matter or anything else
> >regarding your MANSION account please do not hesitate to contact us.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kindest regards,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >MANSION Member Services
> >
> >
> >
> >www.mansion.com

Thank you for taking the time to look into this.

I do not know if he was actually sitting at the table when it happened, he might have just been watching, but it was the player named 'Cap' who mentioned in the chat window

"Cap says: "I just came in and watched the exact same hand on a smaller no limit"

Cap says: "Not seconds before I cxame in here."

I am the last person in the world to cry rigged, but since you had just had to restart the software, there is a much higher probability of a problem arising at this time. You can imagine upon reading this why I would at least want to see the hand he's talking about.

I proceeded to ask what table it was at and he replied 0518. This entire exchange occurred during game number 3211134. The hand in question is 3211099.

If cap was not seated at table 0518 when the hand occurred, it would certainly be within hands 3210900-3211150, likely right around 3211099. Just look for the hands which were won with four of a kind.

I do enjoy playing at Mansion a lot. I use the sports exchange extensively, and all my poker play has been with you lately and I've been sending friends to Mansion. But I do need to see the hand 'Cap' is talking about to reaffirm my confidence with you. Thank you

xxx

>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: RE: Your MANSION Account
>Date: 30 Jul 2006 05:00:29 +0000
>
>
>Hello xxx,
>
>Thank you once again for your email,
>
>Thank you for the information sent regarding this issue,
>
>In order to investigate this matter fully and thoroughly we require the following information,
>
>1, Table number you were sitting at
>
>2, Hand ID or failing that the time this incident happened.
>
>3, The nickName of one or more of the players on the other table,
>
>4 The table number of the other table this ocured at.
>
>The reason for this is that it is not possible to just search for a table as the histories are only recorded in individuals poker histories, therefore without a members ID we cannot search for this table.
>
>As soon as we have this information we will investigate this matter fully.
>
>Thank you for choosing MANSION, we look forward to being your choice for premium gaming entertainment online.
>
>
>
>Should you request further assistance with this matter or anything else regarding your MANSION account please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
>
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>
>
>David
>
>
>
>MANSION Member Services
>
>
>
>www.mansion.com
>
>
>
>"Where The World Plays"
>
>
>
>Email: [email protected]
>
>
>
>[THREAD ID:1-6EP00]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>Sent: 7/30/2006 02:39:05 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Your MANSION Account
>
>As provided in my original e-mail, the table number and time frame was table
>0518 from 00:00-00:30 July 28th.
>
>I only found out about this through the chat window at my table at the time.
>I am not currently in the same location as my computer w/ my mansion poker
>software so I can not access it, but if you go through my game logs at the
>2/4 NL table at the time this occured, you will see whoever it was that told
>me. Thank you
>
>xxx
>username dguild
>
>
> >From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Your MANSION Account
> >Date: 29 Jul 2006 14:54:16 +0000
> >
> >
> >Hello xxx
> >
> >
> >
> >Further to our previous communications with you I am happy to confirm that
> >our Poker Department have responded to your query.
> >
> >
> >
> >Unfortunately, however it is not possible for us to fully investigate hand
> >history without details of the players involved in the hand. If you were
> >able to provide us with the name of the player who informed you of the
> >outcome of the hand you are querying we will be able to take a look at the
> >hand through their account.
> >
> >
> >
> >However, they have investigated the possibility of these hands occurring on
> >two separate tables at the same time and, although extremely unlikely, it
> >is possible due to the large number of hands which are in play
> >simultaneously on the site.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you for your patience and please don’t hesitate to get back in
> >touch if you require any further assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kindest regards,
> >
> >
> >
> >Sarah
> >
> >
> >
> >MANSION Member Services
> >
> >
> >
> >www.mansion.com

As provided in my original e-mail, the table number and time frame was table 0518 from 00:00-00:30 July 28th.

I only found out about this through the chat window at my table at the time. I am not currently in the same location as my computer w/ my mansion poker software so I can not access it, but if you go through my game logs at the 2/4 NL table at the time this occured, you will see whoever it was that told me. Thank you

xxx
username dguild


>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Your MANSION Account
>Date: 29 Jul 2006 14:54:16 +0000
>
>
>Hello xxx
>
>
>
>Further to our previous communications with you I am happy to confirm that our Poker Department have responded to your query.
>
>
>
>Unfortunately, however it is not possible for us to fully investigate hand history without details of the players involved in the hand. If you were able to provide us with the name of the player who informed you of the outcome of the hand you are querying we will be able to take a look at the hand through their account.
>
>
>
>However, they have investigated the possibility of these hands occurring on two separate tables at the same time and, although extremely unlikely, it is possible due to the large number of hands which are in play simultaneously on the site.
>
>
>
>Thank you for your patience and please don’t hesitate to get back in touch if you require any further assistance.
>
>
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>
>
>Sarah
>
>
>
>MANSION Member Services
>
>
>
>www.mansion.com


I was in a hand at the same time at another table in which my full house Aces over 10's from my hand of AA lost to pocket 10's when they got four of a kind 10's. I wouldn't have thought anything of it except somebody from another table I was not at said the exact same hand had just occured at the table I previously mentioned. I have vehemently defended Mansion to friends as being extremely fair, resulting in their signing up, but this shocked me and I wanted to check to see how similar the hands were. It's very possible there was a glitch in the software as you had to reboot right before this happened last night.

xxx


>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: RE: Hand History
>Date: 28 Jul 2006 14:10:25 +0000
>
>
>Hello dguild,
>
>Thank you for your recent email.
>
>As you were not actually sat at the table in question we are unable to give you the hand details. Although you may view the table in real time as a spectator we can not send you the details as it is information which is in someone else's account.
>
>However, if there is a particular reason why you wish to view the hands we kindly request that you respond to this email detailing these reasons and we may pass them on for further investigation by our Poker Team.
>
>Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>
>
>Laura
>
>
>
>MANSION Member Services
>
>
>
>www.mansion.com
>
>
>
>"Where The World Plays"
>
>
>
>Email: [email protected]
>
>
>
>Tel: +350 41000
>
>
>
>Fax: +350 41001
>
>
>
>
>
>[THREAD ID:1-6AZ68]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected]
>Sent: 7/28/2006 12:02:06 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Hand History
>
>i was not sitting at this particular table at the time so I can not retrieve
>the hand history for the half hour. I would very much apreciate you sending
>it to me. Thank you
>
>xxx
>
>
> >From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: Hand History
> >Date: 28 Jul 2006 09:06:34 +0000
> >
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you for your recent email enquiry.
> >
> >
> >
> >In order to view your hand history, you need to click on the MY ACCOUNT tab
> >in your MANSION account.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Click on the POKER HISTORY tab
> >
> >
> >
> >Then select RING GAMES, making sure that HAND DETAIL is ticked.
> >
> >
> >
> >Select the session you require, this is displayed on the LEFT, click on it.
> >
> >
> >
> >Go through the hand details – which are displayed on the RIGHT.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This shows a breakdown of gaming history and allows you to view a replay of
> >any game by clicking on the Information icon.
> >
> >
> >
> >We hope that this has satisfied your query fully, and look forward to being
> >of assistance to you in the future.
> >
> >
> >
> >Kindest regards,
> >
> >
> >
> >Laura
> >
> >
> >
> >MANSION Member Services
> >
> >
> >
> >www.mansion.com
> >
> >
> >
> >"Where The World Plays"
> >
> >
> >
> >Email: [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> >Tel: +350 41000
> >
> >
> >
> >Fax: +350 41001
> >
> >
> >
> >[THREAD ID:1-6AZ68]
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [email protected]
> >Sent: 7/28/2006 12:31:51 AM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Hand History
> >
> >Can you please send me the hand history for poker table 0518 from
> >00:00-00:30 July 28th. Thank you
> >
> >xxx

[genuinejon]

This is basically no info, but here's the response I got:

Hello genuinejon

Thank you for your email and the information you provided.

Unfortunately to enable us to send you the hand history you requested we would need to access the hand histories through a members account.

We are sure you appreciate this breaches our members security, it would not be in the best interest of our members to disclose any information relating to our members accounts or activities.

Any member can access their own history by accessing "My account" - "Poker history"

We apprecaite this may not be the answer you were hoping for, however we trust you understand the situation.

Kindest regards,
Julie
MANSION Member Services
www.mansion.com
"Where The World Plays"
Email: [email protected]

[dguild]

Besides the usual automated reply saying they received your e-mail, I've received no response at all from them. It would appear they are content to hope this all just fades away.

[HavanaBanana]

I call BS!

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately to enable us to send you the hand history you requested we would need to access the hand histories through a members account.

[/ QUOTE ]

ToT

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
> >Thank you for your patience and please don’t

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a subliminal way of encouraging you to "please donate"?

[dguild]

[ QUOTE ]
Note how on the first table there are only eight players, while on the second table there are nine players. If the RNG would have resulted in a deck in the exact same order as in a previous hand, there would have been another result.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this was strange at first too, but in the hand they e-mailed me(3211077) it appears flipside was sitting out since it doesn't show him being dealt cards or acting. That would make 8 players at each table.