How long till I win??

[lemonPeel]

I was in the same boat for a while... I would crash and burn in MTT's right after the bubble busted. I would survive and survive and just have very low chips when we got into the money and wasn't really able to do much when the money kicked in. I've adjusted my game through a lot of self reflection and found a style that suits me better.

Since then, I've won my second online tourney, the first being a 1 dollar MTT about 2 years ago. I also managed to FT the same tourney the next time I played it. And the reason you see a lot of good players "winning" many tourneys every month is because they are also "losing" a whole butt load of tourneys as well. In other words, they are playing upwards of many many more tourneys then you and I ever will play in any single day, week or even month.

Since they play a lot more tourneys, they are naturally also going to win a lot more. So don't be too discouraged if you haven't got a MTT win in yet. Keep trying. Good luck.

[pdjplano]

i've been playing for ever and can't win diddly squat in any MTT, with only 1 final table in a piddly arse $2 MTT (1127 players) at stars and some qualifiers to bigger tournaments that resulted in exactly $0 (went out 142nd at Tilt Sunday, 99 pay, standard for me and not being able to make the $ in anything of any real size...)

i the quinessential loser at poker, playing for enjoyment thinking i'd be better than i am and tossing $ in each month to continue to play MTTs thinking that someday i'll win something...

there is a very, very good chance that winning will not happen.

truthfully, for me, i have come to accept that i'm one of the whatever odd % of people that lose at poker. i have some disposable income i can throw at poker each month, and i do because i love the game.

maybe not what you want to hear, but not everyone is cut out for poker greatness ...

[COLDWOLF#1]

well no time like the present to put your advice to work..Im going to enter 10 little tourneys 6 on pokerstars:$1- 45 man sng two times,$5- 45 man sng twice,$4= dollar 180 man sng twice,and then 4 on partypoker $6- dollar 20or30 man twice, and $6- dollar 50 man twice..ill give results when there done...also could some one post sites they think have easier tournaments they speak of?Thanks again

[doubLe a tom]

Getting over that hump and to the next level is always a challenge. Reading books is always a good idea and great learning tool (HOH 1/2 pwn) but the best thing for your game is practice. I suggest reading up on SNG strategy and learning to beat those before moving on to MTTs. By playing SNGs you can sustain a positive ROI easier because the variance is much lower. If you can learn to regularly beat SNGs your bankroll will be able to withstand the massive variance that comes with MTTs (especially in the stars low buy-ins with 1000+ players).

Also if you find you are cosistantly going deep in MTTs but always coming up short, you're probably playing too tight. I suggest you play a more loose-aggressive style, and do whatever it takes to build up a big stack. Playing this style, you will bust out of a lot of tournies early, but you will also be able to get a dominant stack much more often. Having a sizable stack is important for many reasons. First of all having a lot of chips prevents you from busting out of a tournament on a single hand... meaning you have more freedom to gamble, and if you take a bad beat you'll still be alive. You might make it "in the money" more often playing tight-aggressive, but you will surely have more top 3 finishes if you can play a solid loose-aggressive style, and thats where the money is.

Also, you might want to try playing on a site that has smaller tournies (IE: Bodog, PokerRoom). They dont have near the volume of Stars tournies so the variance is quite a bit lower.

Good luck,
Tom

[Rocco]

It was after reading HoH 1+2, I became a better-than-average-player. Read them thoroughly and try to apply the concepts while playing. After some online training, re-read Harrington and you'll pick up things you missed (or didn't fully understand). The best training you can get without spewing money is to play the Stars $4.40 180-man SnG's. Focus on at most two tourneys at one time. As soon as you go out of one, register on the next tourney. You'll probably be able to play 10 of these in one evening.

The next step is probably to watch some of the regulars here play (Rizen, nath, gobboboy, Ansky...), either by reading hand histories, or just logon to a poker site and follow them through a tourney. You'll pick up tons of thoughtful situations and learn why aggression is necessary.

Then, of course, you have to post hands and read posts here daily...

[registrar]

I won the second MTT I played and had a really hot streak at for a couple of months. I don't keep stats, but my ROI must be one of the best out there because I've largely kept within a bank roll and got a relatively huge pay day a few months ago. I'm not a bad player but I am by no means good. However, I do really like the money and when I want a score I generally get one by concentrating very hard and being very wise.

For a start, as Mornelth says, play smaller fields if you want to win money. I'd love to take down a big MTT and dabble with the Stars rebuys. But, seriously, given that you won't be one of the best ten of the 1500 players playing, your chances of sucking out and successfully coinflipping for seven hours, are miniscule. Last night, I hammered successive tables at in the Stars $3r, but finished just ITM with three bad beats in two orbits.

So, find smaller tournies on smaller sites. Shop a round, see what suits. Stars has a good range of SnG tournies. Crypto has terrible players and small fields. Ladbrokes doesn't have blinds. I suggest finding a tournament that suits your roll and your play and sticking to that until you win.

I also back the advice of mixing up your play. Playing STTs is great practice for understanding bubble play and patience. Play some cash games to understand post-flop play. Try other games to give you a better sense of betting.

The other thing to remember is that the the most profitbale play in the long run is often high variance. This can be avoided while you are learning the trade and I would suggest that Tournament Poker for Advaned Players is the most useful in this regard. There is, especially in a small and fishy field, of playing tight and waiting for big hands. One in a while you'll hit a great run of cards and end up at FT. If you are good at STTs, then it's easy enough to take down a score.

However, in the long run, you have to make riskier plays to make more money. For example, the guy who is in your big blind when you a small blind, is very loose, aggressive and mouthy. He evidently hates it when you raise him. He has a big stack. Now, you can leave him alone and this will lower your variance or you can attack him knowing that he will play back with a marginal hand, thus increasing your variance, but in the end, increasing your profit.

Lastly, really think about what you are doing at all times and why. Weak players genreally bet to protect their hand, and slow play to trap. Don't make this mistake. Bet to make money. Bet all the time when you have good reason to think you are ahead. Don't bet for information. Don't bet to protect your hand. Bet to get value when you are ahead.

[MrTimCaum]

[ QUOTE ]
Ive been playing for 12 months with around 1200 mtts played (fields of 50+)buy ins $1 to $5 & FR's.Ive had 26 wins & 95 FT,s............

.......I dont feel I have the skills or confidence to enter any of the higher buy in MTT's.

[/ QUOTE ]


you seem to be wildly over estimating the talent level found in higher buy in mtts. if those numbers are accurate, you have to have a hatred of money or something

[andre006]

i've had the same problem of goin far often but not being able to have big cashes,i used to play conservative from the beginning to the end of an MTT.Since a couple months i've open up my game especially when antes kicks in and i've seen major improvements in the results.

I like these advices from Strassa2 btw
1.Play your best game
2.Expect to lose

also reading HOH1&2 is a really good thing it can only benefit.

[Quanah Parker]

Question: What defines a "real" MTT? Over 100 enterted? Over 1000 entered? Just wondering.
Here's my 2 cents and results.
Get hungary. Do not accept losing any $$$ a month. I started out just over a year ago with a $100 buy-in that I REALLY couldn't afford, and especially couldn't afford to lose. I read HOH 1 & 2. I played $5 SNGs on Party for about 2 months, got up to $400 and started playing the $5, 10, and 20 MTTs.
I've made many final tables, and finished 1st a few times. My best payout was $4400 I made in the Party 500k via a $10 satelitte for my $215 buy-in. I finished 14th out of 3000+.
Last weekend I finished 1st and 3rd in the Stars $20 180 MTT, and 1st in a Party $10 with 150 entered. Definitely my best weekend so far.
I gotta say I really love the Party $5 speed MTT, I've finished 1st outta 600 there. The speed MTT has helped me with my aggression. Play it and you'll see why.
I just started doing daily balance logs. I'm up over 4k in the last 2.5 months. My biggest loss days were slightly over $100, with usually 1 or 2 a week. Doing the log has helped me loads in holding onto the $ I win. I instantly noticed a trend of big losing days following my big win days.
If I had to guess, I'd say I'm up 10k in a year....and I've probably spent $400 on books in that time. Oh yeah, reading 'em helps.
All boasting aside, my results may not be typical. I'm single and 33, with a day job, and plenty of free time. My home is distraction free. I try to never drink while playing, although I probably smoke more than Bob Marley. I'd say I spend 3 out of 4 weekends playing 12 hours each Saturday and Sunday, and probably play 4 hours each night on most weeknights. I take breaks for walks, and to step back from bad beats. I stay off the phone while playing. In other words, I'm a poker obessed hermit burner. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I just started Poker Tracker, and I can't say its helps my tourney game, but its a neat tool.
Recommendations:
1-Play the Stars small MTTs with 45 max.
This will help with all stages of play, you'll get to the money and the FT more, and this expierence is what you need for future success. I recommend buy-ins for $10 or more. The expierence gained at lower level buy-ins isn't worth much against players with 1/2 a clue. Not that I'm saying all players at this level are clueless.
2-Play more SNGs.
For your skill and your bankroll. If you can't make $ playing these, you are not ready for the MTTS.
3-Play only 1 MTT at a time.
This is crucial for learning the stages of the tourney, and how to read other players.
4-Play some Head-to-Head.
I recommend the Stars $5 (4)person. This totally helped my confidence and skills, and when I find myself at a final table with 5 people or less, I feel comfortable. That's been crucial.
5-Buy the books. Read the books.

Here's a link with good and brief MTT advice, stage by stage.
http://www.bet-the-pot.com/multi-tab...ts-page63.html
It helped me focus on stepping up the ladder, where earlier I had been guiltity of playing for 1st only. I found actually focusing on one rung of the ladder at a time really helped me. In a $20 MTT-180 at Stars, I was 19 of 19 ih chips with 19 left. 18 make the $. Well, I was the low man on the totem pole all the way to 3rd, made $400, but 2 months ago I woulda flamed out a lot earlier trying to becoome chip leader with 10 left.
Alright, there's my rambling 4th of July advice.
Good luck Coldwolf.

[ebaudry]

If you are playing tournes with 150+ players, it could take a really long time to get a first. I would say that i am a very good player, supporting myself thru my play, and i only got my first 1st about a month ago (1 year of play). Lots and lots of final tables and so forth, but 1st is tricky. I would estimate that i played about 300-400 MTTs before winning one. I've also read ALL the good poker books and am a chess master [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

if you really want a win, i would suggest playing the 99player max games (available i think from $11-33 on partypoker). Not sure on the math (and it varies obviously based on your ROI), but i would think you could hope to win one within 30-40 tries, if you are good enuf to do so.

Of course variance says that you could probably play a few hundred and never win one.

gluck.