Do you really believe Bush Lied? It makes no sense.

[TaintedRogue]

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... and we would have looked like Big Bullies to the World.

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funny you should mention that.

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That would account for why the populace of 10 of 14 foreign countries who were polled, found the U.S. as more of a threat to world peace than Iran and Korea?...........

[jman220]

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You dont know how he lied? That he knew about Pearl Harbor and intentionally failed to prevent it so he would have an excuse to take us to war? Cmon Bluff, get with it.

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I particularly love this argument, again for its ridiculous logical flaw. (I know you're just being sarcastic). But would someone who holds this view, please explain to me, why, if FDR *knew* Pearl Harbor was about to be attacked, he wouldn't have at least ordered the fleet to sea, or ordered them ready for an attack? We STILL would have gotten into the war, if that was FDR's goal, but at least we would have had an intact fleet, instead of having our pacific defenses decimated.

[matrix]

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You dont know how he lied? That he knew about Pearl Harbor and intentionally failed to prevent it so he would have an excuse to take us to war? Cmon Bluff, get with it.

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I particularly love this argument, again for its ridiculous logical flaw. (I know you're just being sarcastic). But would someone who holds this view, please explain to me, why, if FDR *knew* Pearl Harbor was about to be attacked, he wouldn't have at least ordered the fleet to sea, or ordered them ready for an attack? We STILL would have gotten into the war, if that was FDR's goal, but at least we would have had an intact fleet, instead of having our pacific defenses decimated.

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Cryptology.

the codes used by the Japanese were broken - hence we found out about the attack in the first place.

Moving the fleet would have given away to the Japanese that the codes had been broken and they would have chaged them into codes harder to break - as far as I am aware it was decided that it was better to allow the attack to take place and keep intercepting transmissions that the allies could read than run the risk that they would change the codes and then have to break them over again, that the future knowledge provided by the already broken codes would save more lives than simply warning the fleet. AIUI there are many examples of such action littered throughout warfare where the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" so to speak and intelligence gleaned from broken encrypted transmissons was ignored in order to capitalise on that advantage later in some greater fashion - PH is simply the best known.

Although I might be wrong here I'm not well read on Pearl Harbour. The conspiracy theory goes that the whole thing was engineered in any case and all they got from the codes were the precise times - but it's not one I've researched yet.

[Linksys]

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EVERY GOVERNMENT LIES

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That's really all that needs to be said here.

[andyfox]

On November 15, 1941, General Marshall told a gathering of press bureau chiefs and senior correspondents that "We are preapring an offensive war against Japan, whereas the Japs believe we are preparing only to defend the Phillippines." He continued: "Flying fortreses will be dispatched immediatelyto set the paper cities of Japan on fire. There won't be any hesitation about bombing civilians--it will be all-out."

I don't believe there was much of this in FDR's December 8th address.

[revots33]

They thought there MIGHT be WMDs in Iraq. Or there might not. But they were going in either way, so why not use that as the reason? If they find them, great. If not, just label any dissenters as unpatriotic defeatists who don't support our troops. The original reasons get lost in the fog of war.

[tolbiny]

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But would someone who holds this view, please explain to me, why, if FDR *knew* Pearl Harbor was about to be attacked, he wouldn't have at least ordered the fleet to sea, or ordered them ready for an attack?

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Lucily for the US the carrier fleet was out of the harbor, and they became the backbone of our Navy.

[Chris Alger]

.

[Knockwurst]

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The WMD question has been settled. They were there. Some were destroyed by Saddam prior to the war, some have been found, some have been used against coalition troops, some were moved to Syria, and some are probably still there waiting to be discovered.

There have been dozens of news stories about WMD found in Iraq in the last 2-3 years. Anyone who watches the news occasionally would know this.

Bush knew it.
Clinton knew it.
Congress knew it.
The UN weapons inspectors knew it.
Tony Blair knew it.
Saddam Hussein knew it.
Every government with an international intelligence agency knew it.

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Sir, do you choose to intentionally disregard the evidence that the only WMDs found were of a totally degraded nature left over from Gulf War I?

Do you choose to be ignorant of the facts?

Or do you choose to intentionally misinform for some political purpose?

Do you think there is a reason not even Bush, Cheney, et al. are making the outlandish claims that you are? Is there a reason that Bush's handpicked man, Charles Duefler, said there are no weapons grade WMD. Maybe they are part of the conspiracy to suppress the WMD.

Here, I'll help you with the links:

First, Rick Santorum holds a press conference claiming over 500 WMDs have been found in Iraq. Fox News link

Money quote:
"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."




Next, DoD disavows Santorum's claim:
Think Progress link
Money quote:

Today, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference and announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” Santorum and Hoekstra are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed.

Fox News’ Jim Angle contacted the Defense Department who quickly disavowed Santorum and Hoekstra’s claims. A Defense Department official told Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.”

[Knockwurst]

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The incredible thing would have been if they didn't lie.

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Agreed, Andy. I'm still amazed that they (the administration) didn't try to sneak some weapons grade WMD into the country to justify the war. No doubt there was some discussion about it at pretty high levels I'm sure. True, I'm speculating here, but I can't see how at least it wouldn't be discussed.