Interesting hand vs. Durrrrrrr

[neon]

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FF,

"Glad to see it seems like an obvious fold."

I did not think it was an obvious fold. In fact, I would never make that river raise of yours if I were going to fold to a push.

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I agree w/ this 100%. Especially against durrrr. Extra, extra specially if you've been warring w/ him, which it sounds like you were.

Also, I would say to bet the turn, but then I'd just be beating a dead horse.

[legend42]

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What I don't like is your turn check combined with your river play. The small raise just reeks of a marginal hand looking for value that can't stand heat. Would you ever bluff this small? Probably not. Would you raise this small with a set? Probably not, because you're checking the turn in order to get paid more than you would by betting.

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Good post, especially given the opponent. If this hand were posted here from the villian's POV, there would be many posters here advocating a 3-bet bluff push on the river, for just these reasons.

It seems like the OP was influenced by other factors (and we all have been) but this was a poorly played river.

[raptor517]

durrr is tough to play against because of stuff like that. especially if he knows you are a thinking player. that line he took can be complete air or the nuts. or a real thin value shove. tough hand. holla

[Parlay Slow]

how was durrr so sure you didn't have the nuts yourself

[raptor517]

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how was durrr so sure you didn't have the nuts yourself

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well thats the beauty of poker isnt it.. holla

[legend42]

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how was durrr so sure you didn't have the nuts yourself

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As has been said... because the river raise was too small.

[EmpireMaker2]

Durr is the illest

[samoleus]

FF, I haven't read any responses, but I think that you put yourself in a very difficult position by checking the turn. That being said, I don't hate your having done so. I think that if you can accept this difficult decision, it might be the highest EV (though most difficult) way of playing this hand.

Normally, I would lean towards folding, but your description of the player evens that up a bit. But this statement:

"Anyway, the next time I deal with durrrrrr we don't run into each other too much despite his position on me."

ultimately makes it a fold for me, although it is a very very close decision given the rest of the circumstances you described.

[Hay Guyz]

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I think pushing is warranted.

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AAAH.

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time to be results oriented and say i told you so [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[MDMA]

I'm with Diablo on this one, I really hate that river raise if you're planning to fold to a push.

By checking that turn and then making thar riverraise your CLEARLY define your hand as being a weak checked KQ or AK on turn pretty much all the time , and by him knowing that the ONLY hands better than AK that you can have is KT or TT, and that is of course the chance he is taking, since on balance your going to have AK/KQ a lot more often I believe. I generally do not like checking here on the turn at all, but if I do, it's as edge says - not for pot control, but rather to make a thinking player do something like this, even though I generally much more prefer a c/r in durrs place. For 180, weak kings + QQ/JJ are calling and also most likely AT as well, the only hands that bet is folding out are bad tens as well as 9s. QQ/JJ are most definately checking behind, so against all those hands you just cannot win the hand unless you bet more, like closer to pot to representa king on your own (although if you do this you will lose to KQ since he will never raise you if you pots it). I generally like a check here tho, hoping he bets to get in a checkraise given that he knows that I know that he just very rarely will have a big hand here (as said, only KT and TT) and much more often some king of king, and he knows that we knows this. I'd, as I say, prefer a potbet to a halfpot, since that way we can at least make QQ/JJ and tens fold. The only reason durr is betting halfpot is that he's hoping villain has exactly a king so he then can 3-bet when villain is trying to raise for value. So, basically were giving him money when he has QQ/JJ/AT/perhaps a very weak king) by betting halfpot, while still giving us a good chance to make him fold if he has KQ/AK and decides to raise. If we instead check we lose nothing more to QQ/JJ/AT, whereas we will be able to make any king (now even a weak one since he will definately bet that on river given how the hand was played) fold by c/r:ing.

So, in summary, just bet turn here most of the time.

I would call here instantly given stacks, how the hand played out (mosty importantly turn) and the fact that durrr is very good and probably will be doing this move here quite a lot, since it's definately EV+ against anyone he feels is rather weak, and most players who check behind here on turn with a K too often generally are. He could even be doing this with AK himself (for valuee) if he decided to cold-call preflop.