GOSH-DARN MINRAISERS

[slartibartfast]

>>> Only idiots would say you should either raise or fold. You should either CALL or fold. <<<

My top choice by far as I said initially was folding, I'm not sure what calling achieves. Let's call and see what happens - if he bets the turn, what does this mean?

If the bet is large, do you fold? Perhaps a small bet means he's bluffing. On the other hand a small bet might be just inticing you to call (again). If he doesn't bet is he just slow-playing trips? Who knows. Do you just call the turn and the river out of curiosity? At least if you raise and he pops you back you know you're done with the hand.

[Big_Jim]

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>>> Only idiots would say you should either raise or fold. You should either CALL or fold. <<<

My top choice by far as I said initially was folding, I'm not sure what calling achieves. Let's call and see what happens - if he bets the turn, what does this mean?

If the bet is large, do you fold? Perhaps a small bet means he's bluffing. On the other hand a small bet might be just inticing you to call (again). If he doesn't bet is he just slow-playing trips? Who knows. Do you just call the turn and the river out of curiosity? At least if you raise and he pops you back you know you're done with the hand.

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Sometimes shove turn. Sometimes fold turn. Sometimes call down. Sometimes call turn/fold river.

Play poker.

Raising the flop loses a good amount when behind, and nothing more, when ahead (Unless we have a great image, or are playing against a total donkey). Calling gives him a chance to make some more when ahead, while losing about the same, or less as a flop raise, when behind.

[pfkaok]

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Raising the flop loses a good amount when behind, and nothing more, when ahead (Unless we have a great image, or are playing against a total donkey). Calling gives him a chance to make some more when ahead, while losing about the same, or less as a flop raise, when behind.

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yeah. basically, raising makes it very easy for him to play perfectly against you, while calling at least gives him a chance to make a mistake.

[slartibartfast]

Call, raise or fold either way you are still "playing poker".

If he is ahead he has 2-pair or trips. If he has 2-pair, he may fold to the hero's reraise which to him could indicate the trips (perhaps hero raised KK pre-flop?)

If he's not convinced or has trips himself then he's going to let you know with a larger raise. Playing poker without information is hard, and merely calling gives you none.

[Big_Jim]

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If he has 2-pair, he may fold to the hero's reraise

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LOL, no.

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merely calling gives you none.

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This is false.

The only information that we gain by re-raising (again, against typical opponents) is "we are definitely beat." This information is not worth the price.

[MDMA]

Give up slartibartfast, you've gotten pretty much every concept there is wrong. Raising for information is the dumbest concept ever conceived in most cases; what it does is that is makes your opponent to play better against you. Fold out hands you beat, and let better hands continue. Raising looking to get re-raised to be able to fold comfortably is just folly, and things like "If he has 2-pair, he may fold to the hero's reraise which to him could indicate the trips" with 50bb is ridiculous. Realize that "raising for information" just pretty much sucks in most spots.

[Big_Jim]

Unfortunately, the Magazine article is gone, but this is a good thread about Raising for Information

[slartibartfast]

I find it interesting that the best advice you can give is, "call, then play poker". That is an absolute gem I'm sure, but might be more useful to philosophers or zen buddhists than poker players.

MDMA I'll explain this to you once again: I play mid-stakes NL for a living, if I fail to understand these concepts then I obviously deserve a gold medal for table selection abilities! If you have a prefered way to play in this situation, then describe it precisely rather than merely adding negative comments.

[Big_Jim]

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I find it interesting that the best advice you can give is, "call, then play poker".

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Folding is clearly an option against some players, and re-raising is an option, with certain table dynamics, but this is by far the best way to play the hand, against typical players.

How to proceed on the turn depends on:
a) The turn
b) His bet sizing/timing
c) Reads

Very hard to give much more specific advice without this information.

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I play mid-stakes NL for a living, if I fail to understand these concepts then I obviously deserve a gold medal for table selection abilities!

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Even if you only have a lead medal, you can still crush these games pretty easily, even without knowing all the ins and outs of the game, if you can make good reads/manipulate your opponents.

Nobody is questioning your overall skill at the game, but your ideas regarding this particular hand are completely incorrect.

[FreakDaddy]

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Call, raise or fold either way you are still "playing poker".

If he is ahead he has 2-pair or trips. If he has 2-pair, he may fold to the hero's reraise which to him could indicate the trips (perhaps hero raised KK pre-flop?)

If he's not convinced or has trips himself then he's going to let you know with a larger raise. Playing poker without information is hard, and merely calling gives you none.

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You need to at least call since you have position. He could have just taken a stab at the pot, he could have a worse King. I mean he posted, and then called a rasie OOP. His range is fairly wide including a lot of middle pairs.

I had a guy mini-raise me out of position in a raised pot last night on the turn with a pair and gutshot draw (he has 6,7). I had a pair and straight flush draw and had just raised the flop in position, he checked and I bet the turn to have him mini-raise me. Sometimes people do just goofy things that make no logical sense.

A call here lets him know you like you're hand, and he may just give up, but I think a fold is a mistake.