5-5NL exremely deep short handed

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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the key when playing shorthanded is not to call with more crap hands OOP (I'm looking at you, Ax), it's to raise a lot in position and RERAISE more preflop to make it tougher on your opponents

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I agree...that's why I said A7 warrants at least a call. Reraising a lot and making it tough on your opponents definitely goes in the "get involved in a lot of pots with marginal hands and trust your postflop play to win with relatively weaker holdings" category.

FWIW, in position I think A7 is not that bad a hand to just call with shorthanded against a very aggressive player. OOP it's normally a reraise unless he's been slowing down post-flop when called in which case I might call sometimes with Ax.

[shag]

Ok... So I called the turn bet. A 4 came on the river and I paid off a $300 bet. Villain had 105o. I know the villain is capable of a 3 barrel. I know he can have a hand as crappy as 105o, I also know he probably folds to a substantial raise with this hand on the turn. The reason I posted this hand was to get some input on some things, some of which have been addressed to some degree. I have no problem with my preflop play.

This guy is most difficult to play against. He plays 105o that missed the same way he plays a monster hand that hit a monster flop. Should I be 3-betting the flop against a guy like this? Lead or c/r the turn? check/fold the river even though I know he makes this bluff? I know he lays down his draws if I price him out. I could just c/r the turn to like 400 and show him an ace and he will fold unless he's priced in or already is beating me. I don't know...

[TStoneMBD]

the only reason to 3bet the flop or checkraise the turn is to find out where you stand so you can checkfold the river rather than pay off a big bet. you shouldnt be trying to build a pot in this scenario unless you know villain will pay you off with a pocket pair. youre much better off trying to let him bluff you off your hand. i dont really like the flop lead but i guess its ok if you think itll make villain think you dont have an ace.

[Kirkrrr]

Against a tough, aggressive opponent I call with A-high (and probably K-high) if we're deep and popping him back pre-flop if not. Anyone who advocates folding pre-flop probably doesn't play very well short-handed.

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Lead or c/r the turn?

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....

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I know he can have a hand as crappy as 105o, I also know he probably folds to a substantial raise with this hand on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ] ... answers that, no?

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check/fold the river even though I know he makes this bluff?

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A lot of good full-ring players get crushed playing LAG's short-handed precisely because of that thinking. They go into a defensive mode with the idea that "I'm going to wait for the nuts, then catch him bluffing!!" It doesn't happen like that. The key is to make precisely these kinds of calls... and I don't think this hand is even that tough. If you had Ace-high, it wouldn't been a lot more interesting, imo.

[john kane]

creedofhubris said it spot on.

im shocked by players not being able to adapt to different playing styles. You have to play with position against LAGs and you have to be reraising a lot to get them to make -EV individual mistakes by calling when behind due to the pots odds they are recieving - this is a fundamental concept of how to win at poker.

Im folding A7 preflop out of position but reraising to 80-90 with position.

As for board im check-calling down.

What is the point in calling preflop with A7 if your only looking to hit 2 pair of trip 7s. It would certainly be a -EV call by doing so.

[Kirkrrr]

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What is the point in calling preflop with A7 if your only looking to hit 2 pair of trip 7s. It would certainly be a -EV call by doing so.

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Back to what I said - waiting for the "nuts" to make a play. I will reiterate: it's a bad policy to do that vs good LAGs in short-handed games. I am not calling pre-flop w/ A7 to hit trips, I'm calling because I know Villain is raising light and my A7o is probably the best hand... which I'm playing as such by either leading, or check-raising any flop.

For the record, that type of mentality is why I love short-handed games vs average opponents.

Kirk

[sasha]

Back to what I said - waiting for the "nuts" to make a play. I will reiterate: it's a bad policy to do that vs good LAGs in short-handed games. I am not calling pre-flop w/ A7 to hit trips, I'm calling because I know Villain is raising light and my A7o is probably the best hand... which I'm playing as such by either leading, or check-raising any flop.

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I would rather play 87 instead of A7
You right you might have the best hand,but what are u gonna do,when the flop dosn"t hit.
You will lead,opponents is smart,and aggrasive,he can float the flop,putting you into harder decition on the turn.
You gonna checkraise,and build huge pot oop with nothing.
Again putting you in tough spot on the turn.
The key in short handed Nl is to make your opponent make tough spots.
There is no value playig A7 oop,because like I stated before there is very few good flops for A7.
Give me position,and I will play.

[Hattifnatt]

Call, lead any river for 250-300 and fold to a raise (except, 2, 3 or 7). If you spike the 7, go for a c/r.

[creedofhubris]

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Against a tough, aggressive opponent I call with A-high (and probably K-high) if we're deep and popping him back pre-flop if not.

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You've got to be kidding, dude. Coming over the top with king-high out of position? Routinely? With shallow stacks?

After about the second time you pull this, this is how that will go down : villain opens, hero reraises. Villain calls. Hero bets flop. Villain pushes. Hero folds. The End.

Your overall success depends on how much you steal before villain takes a stand. But you can't afford to do this much before villain's routinely going to be calling your reraises in position with better hands than yours for big pots, which is a bad place to be.