"I have a big hand and pot odds. I fold"

[ QUOTE ]
the arguement "we have a short stack, so i'm not folding with aces" is stupid

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I think it implies a lot of the other factors that you're thinking are legit. Besides, when you get AA on a short stack, you should be focused on the best way to get all your opponent's chips in, instead of how to wiggle away leaving yourself 8BB or less. Just my opinion.

[blockafor]

I love it. It's posts like this that cause mediocre players to misapply an expert's strategy in a misguided attempt to improve their game (and allowing me to take their chips).

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I love it. It's posts like this that cause mediocre players to misapply an expert's strategy in a misguided attempt to improve their game (and allowing me to take their chips).

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, this is actually a problem and I don't feel like turning it into a Gigabet post. So let me put it this way: in #1, I was very, very sure that I was beat. In fact, almost by definition [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], I was surer than Hand 2, where I was also very sure but let pot odds sway the decision. I do not post this hand unless I have complete confidence that I'm beat, because obviously, on its own this play is indefensible and if anyone else posts it they *do* get torn apart.

What I'm trying to get across is that calling on very ugly boards with good odds "because I have kings" when villain has been repping the nuts every step of the way is pretty overrated.

(if you are reading this and playing $10 tournaments, forget everything I just said)

edit: I can bet the flop, too, but either way this is fairly normal on WAWB boards and I like taking more risks when that short early.

[A_PLUS]

I think the dise 30r, is about as donkish a field as you are going to find.

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is a J, and a very interesting thing happens; SB leads 400 into the 1800 pot and BB calls. I decide my hand probably sucks and overcall, waiting for the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is just no way, your hand 'probably sucks' based on this action. It is just not possible. Even donkeys arent that consistent. Do they play a J like that, probably. Do they play about 150 other hands like that too? Yeah. I havent even reached the point where am not happy about getting my chips in.

Hand 2, meh. Yeah, I make this call too much.

[registrar]

Can we get this straight? You know you are beat in #1 because you have checked the flop, flat-called the turn, BB has seen this and still makes a big bet on the river? He must, therefore be looking at a jack and thinks he's as likley to get action with a big bet as a small one versus whoever has the biggest boat? (Seems pretty logical now, actually, but it's worth explaining your read)

I repeat my question, is this how you play trip jacks on the flop, quads on the turn?

[Absolution]

Um, after busting out of the last two tournaments on hands like this, I would have to agree. Rebuy donks play these flops horribly. I called/raised all-in in both situations and they showed an underpair/overpair respectively (which both hit 2-outers yeah!). They see a paired board and think their pair is good often. When the third jack comes all they see is full house. That's just in my limited experience.

[ QUOTE ]
edit: I can bet the flop, too, but either way this is fairly normal on WAWB boards and I like taking more risks when that short early.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood, but I don't think this board qualifies as a strictly WAWB board. What I'm thinking is, how do we get the most out of hands like 22-55 and 77-TT. I think checking here will often be read for extreme strength whereas a c-bet will be viewed just as that, and some guy with 33 might decide to peel one off and see how you play the turn.

[SossMan]

The river is a Q. SB checks. BB now bets some random large number of chips. I have 1600 behind and will win 4200 when I am good, but don't feel like bothering and muck anyway.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot odds are a great thing, except when they aren't.

[/ QUOTE ] On the river, where your call closes the action, pot odds are the ONLY thing. If you feel that you have a greater than 20% chance of winning the hand, you call. Otherwise, you fold. End of story (well, I'm sure there are borderline situations where you might make a +cEV fold).

What I think you mean by your statement is that you didn't adequately consider your chances of winning this hand, because you figured that, eh, 20% is good enough to call in any situation. I know you're not thinking that you made a bad call because you happened to lose this hand (even though that's how your post reads).

[Nez477]

So, so gross.

And yet necessary.

Brad