Official Barry Bonds Countdown Thread

[THAY3R]

Drew,

Would you advocate for the expulsion of Babe Ruth from the HOF?

[jesusarenque]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I can see that the same old dumb arguments are still being advanced.

Just to be clear yet again.

1. It is undisputed that Bonds used steroids. He admitted it under oath to a grand jury.

2. Using steroids was banned from baseball in 1991, so Bonds was cheating when he used steroids. The fact that baseball did not test or otherwise enforce the ban does not change any of that. Yes, it is hypocritical for baseball to suddenly act like it deserves to sit in judgment of Bonds, and Bud Selig is a giant hypocritical douchebag for acting the way he is. But that doesn't change the fact that Bonds is a lying cheater.

3. Steroids do not help a non-baseball player suddenly become a good hitter, but there is no question that steroids make an already good hitter even better, by improving strength, bat speed, recovery time, etc.

4. Bonds is not being "singled out" because he is a black man or because the media doesn't like him, but because he is the best player who took steroids and who used steroids to help him set 2 of the most important records in baseball.

It is my opinion that Bonds deserves to be the record holder and I don't think any asterisks are a good idea. It is also my opinion that Bonds would have been a sure HoFer even if he never took steroids. However, the fact that he did take steroids makes him a cheater, and I don't think cheaters belong in the Hall of Fame. So I don't think Bonds should ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame. And yes, before you ask, it is fine with me if no one from the "steroid era" gets inducted into the HoF. The Hall of Fame is the highest honor in baseball and cheaters don't deserve it, even if everyone else was cheating at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

There would be about four people in your hall of fame, and they all would suck.

[DrewDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Drew,

Would you advocate for the expulsion of Babe Ruth from the HOF?

[/ QUOTE ]

How did Babe Ruth/all but 4 people in the HoF cheat, exactly? Source please.

[zer0]

pp. 686 and 784 in bill james' historical abstract talk about babe ruth using trick bats, and was the reason they were initially outlawed

im sure the cheaters guide to baseball talks about it as well, but i havent had a chance to open it yet

[DrewDevil]

Um... if he used trick bats before they were made illegal, then he wasn't cheating LDO.

[THAY3R]

I think it's a bit silly to punish/scrutinize players solely because of increased technology and increased media coverage/exposure.

[mo42nyy]

the HOF is already watered down enough
keeping bonds out and putting more and more good but not great players in won't help anything

all time hit leader: not in
all time homerun leader: not in
kirby pucket: in

Brilliant

[DrewDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
the HOF is already watered down enough
keeping bonds out and putting more and more good but not great players in won't help anything

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not suggest putting more good but not great players in.

There's no requirement that ANY players have to get in at all. They have to be deserving.

Only allowing the greatest non-cheating players would do exactly the opposite of watering down the HoF.

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[mo42nyy]

I know you didnt suggest putting in more good but not great players, but that would be the effect of keeping guys like Bonds out. I could understand keeping somebody out who went from good to great because of steroids (not agree with it because a lot of it is just speculation, but understand it) but you said yourself Bonds was already a HOFer

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF and everyone knows for a fact he cheated (yet he rips bonds -ironic) So it also wouldn't be fair to ban someone like Griffey from the HOF who nobody has ever accused of cheating because he played at the same time as Bonds Sosa and McGwire.

[DrewDevil]

Rose was a sure HoFer before he screwed up. I view Bonds the same way. If Bonds had never taken steroids (or retired after the 98 season), definite HoF. Now, no.

Gaylord Perry should not be in the HoF either. And if Griffey never cheated, he deserves the HoF.