Party Blackjack - kickass Promo

[Violent Bill]

do you idiots really think that there was ANY POSSIBLE WAY EVER THAT A GOOD BLACKJACK PROMO WOULD NOT MAKE IT ONTO 2+2?

you are idiots. even if 2+2 had something to do with the promo getting shut down ( which is insane ) it's not like you can blame people for posting about it, that's one of the main topics on this forum.

[El Diablo]

TB,

"But the undeniable fact is that these posts will reduce EV."

Wrong. These posts may kill EV for serious casino bonus chasers, but they vastly improve EV for poker players who sometimes take advantage of them when told about them. This is why these bonuses will continue to be posted here.

Let's take two recent ones that got a lot of exposure:

1) Mansion $1000 refund bonus
2) Party 2:1 BJ bonus

If these bonuses were not posted on 2+2, very few of the poker players here would have heard about them.

Because they were posted, the following happened:

1) Many people got to take advantage of the Mansion bonus - big ++EV for many 2+2 posters
2) The Party bonus was possibly pulled due in part to this - for most 2+2 posters, absolutely zero impact

So, as long as some bonuses like the Mansion bonus DON'T get pulled, it is obviously in the best interest of most 2+2ers to have all such promos posted here.

[SergiyK]

[ QUOTE ]

1) WTF 10/hr? there are 100s here who make 20+ times this.
2) You set up your hypothetical wrong. A bot like this would increase the earn of most players here.
3) He is cheating (according to site rules and poker ethics) while talking about bonuses isn't, so this analogy is complete BS if you are trying to debate moral ground.
4) You act like bonus whoring is some noble pursuit, when really it's a much worse way to make a living than nearly everything, including poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

1) That's the point. Those who make $210/hr did their homework and developed the skills for that. Not just bought 7 computers and ran a program for 24 hours on each for the same profit.

2) For a short while - may be. But not until the half of online poker players start using it and casinos start countermeasures which would affect everybody, not just bot users.

3) Wrong. Read any casino's T&C, it says that bonuses are for genuine players who like to spirit of gambling not just come to exploit the bonus, yada-yada-yada.

4) No. It's business, just as poker playing is. So let's respect each other’s business.

You did not answer the question. Let me rephrase it then. If someone gave you the above-mentioned bot, would you distribute it freely? Why?

[TheBloke]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. These posts may kill EV for serious casino bonus chasers, but they vastly improve EV for poker players who sometimes take advantage of them when told about them. This is why these bonuses will continue to be posted here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is better for you in the short term, but I think it is not better for you in the long term. I stand by my statement "they kill EV" - yes obviously for serious bonus chasers, but also for occasionals and amateurs.

I go back to the exmaple of Denmark, where a TV programme or advert was made telling Danish people about casino bonuses, they piled in en masse, and now Denmark is the pariah of the online casino world. They are incredibly limited in what bonuses they can get, and there's a "guilty until proven innocent" approach from CS.

My point is that the overall amount of EV available to Denmark would have been higher had the program not brought it to the masses all in one go.

So I think it is true now - I agree that if it weren't public here, some people would miss that EV. But the overall amount of EV to go round will be greater, and therefore 2+2 as a whole will benefit from it to a greater extent.

With many of these promos it's not necessarily the number of people who hit it in total, but often just the timespan over which they hit it. Take the Mansion signup Keno issue (not the refund) - if that technique had been distributed slowly, word-of-mouth, through the 2+2 community, it would probably not have died for a long time, and overall more people would have got to use it.

The refund is a different case anyway, that was a promo that wasn't going to die. It was pretty upfront and direct, and there isn't much abuse potential - make this bet, get your money back, maximum 5000 people. They wanted everyone to take it, profitable poker players included - I'm sure many poker players make -EV sports bets just for fun or with the illusion of an edge, and might now favour Mansion now that they know they're reputable and pay fast. It also had a maximum cost to them, most of which they would only have to pay out 50% of the time.

Someone earlier also mentioned bonuses like 888.com and Starluck - they're never going to die either. They've been around for so long and resisted so much change that they must be considered part of the brand. The trick is to identify things that are more sensitive. The Mansion Keno one is a prime example, more an exploit than anything else, and there was 0 chance that it wouldn't die with exposure. This Party promo is another.

I know most people will be of the opinion that they'd rather have a few offers spoon-fed to them, than more offers that they have to find themselves, or at least know people who will find and tell them privately. That's fair enough.

So I'm not talking to those people. I'm talking to the people who do do extra research, or who think that, based on this incident, it might be worth their while to do so. To those people, I'd suggest you don't post here anything good that you find, and don't bump a thread where it has been posted. I think you'll end up richer.

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
TB,

"But the undeniable fact is that these posts will reduce EV."

Wrong. These posts may kill EV for serious casino bonus chasers, but they vastly improve EV for poker players who sometimes take advantage of them when told about them. This is why these bonuses will continue to be posted here. Because they were posted, the following happened:

1) Many people got to take advantage of the Mansion bonus - big ++EV for many 2+2 posters
2) The Party bonus was possibly pulled due in part to this - for most 2+2 posters, absolutely zero impact
So, as long as some bonuses like the Mansion bonus DON'T get pulled, it is obviously in the best interest of most 2+2ers to have all such promos posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winner, winner, winner. Someone obviously understands game theory a lot better than TB and GAyBMtard.

[ QUOTE ]

The irony of this 'debate' is that, if online casino bonuses just appeared today, and I came to this forum to tell you all about it, I would very likely be told "you're a retard, that's BS, casinos are a mugs game".

[/ QUOTE ]

TB - this sounds seriously bad and arrogant on your part, I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been clearing casino and bj and sports bonuses since early 1998 or so.

The fact that you [plural] seek to blame 6-12 posters in this thread for Party's actions is ludicrous and irrational, although I underdstand the 'hurt' at the loss of EV, certainly. Everyone needs somebody to blame, apparently.

PartyGaming is a multi-billion worldwide corporation, that advertised this on their website. There is no way for this *not* to get discussed on 2p2. None. zero. zip. zilch. nada.

As has been noted, if one of 500 people, new or old, post about it, it's here to stay thread-wise. Similar to the Prisoner's Dilemma, you can't silence everyone you need to in advance.

g/l with your bonus hunting,

[TheBloke]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

The irony of this 'debate' is that, if online casino bonuses just appeared today, and I came to this forum to tell you all about it, I would very likely be told "you're a retard, that's BS, casinos are a mugs game".

[/ QUOTE ]

TB - this sounds seriously bad and arrogant on your part, I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been clearing casino and bj and sports bonuses since early 1998 or so.


[/ QUOTE ]

I meant only that the responses I had had up to that point were lacking in any reason or argument, and most posts assumed automatically that what we were saying was nonsense without actually listening to anything we were saying. I felt that many acted as if they knew everything there was to know, whereas in reality that is usually far from the case (for myself included)

Since then, the opposite has been true, and I concede many of the points you've made.

Ultimately I do all this for my own self interest, and it's not just because I'm annoyed about the EV (though I was, of course). But I still contend that, if some of what I am saying was followed by some of you, those people would be better off. Others would be worse off, but then isn't that usually always the case?

Anyway I never really expected to achieve all that much, but I considered there nothing to lose.

Good luck in your endeavours also.

[StacysMom]

The Bloke,

1. Don't post bonuses here because exposure will kill them.

We don't care. As presented earlier, if this promo was not posted it might as well not have existed to 99% of us. If 2+2 happens to kill a casino bonus for you, I, nor the majority of posters here, could give a [censored].


2. Lets assume this thread did kill the bonus. It would have been the second time ever 2+2 influenced the action of Party. The first is their hatred of rakeback. Rakeback didn't incite action from them until their bottom line was getting destroyed for well over a year. Yet one thread could have the same impact instantly?


3. The point of a promotion is to attract new and dormant players. Did you not see the number of people in this thread, myself included, who where downloading Party Casino? Party Casino was gaining clients at a record pace.

4. Are these the types of players who party wants?

Yes.

a. We are degenerate gamblers. Do you see the amount of posts in this exact forum of numerous people losing thousands of dollars on PP BJ? BJ has decimated many a bank roll around here, however you assume all the EV mongers are gonna have the discipline to play 1 hour a day for 3 days?

b. You overestimate the number of posters willing to bet the max. The majority of 2+2 posters have meager poker earnings if any. Random X with his $1200 bankroll is not going to kill this promo at $10/hand.

c. You overstimate the EV an average player has. These ppl do not grind BJ. However they are planning to multiable this for 1000 hands/hr? They are going to make mental mistakes and misclicks.

Conclusion: We most likely had no impact on the promo being yanked. If we killed it for you, we don't care. If Party did get scared that their Promo was going to bring in too many undesireable players and therefore yanked it, they made a huge mistake.

[skunkworks]

GoAheadBanMeJM,

So ummm... have you been underwhelmed by how no one has responded to you? It hurts when your trollish existence goes unacknowledged, doesn't it?