NBA Playoffs Thread

[capone0]

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KC - he's basically 20/10 for his career, right?

-Al

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yup. But he's tripped at every major step of his career. He was never very popular in GS, got good love in Sacramento but blew it against the Lakers, had a decent half season in Philly before dogging his way out of there. Compare him to his peers: Duncan, KG, Shaq, etc.. does he really hold a candle to any of these guys?

I like CWebb good enough, but he just doesn't have it. Maybe he'll sniff it, but I really don't expect him to make it. Maybe Walton will campaign for him and he'll eventually get there.

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How did he blow it versus the Lakers? The 2 time defending champion Lakers. Maybe he didn't win it all, but he put up a pretty damn good effort in the series, maybe not game 7, but he's still been one of the best over his career.

Maybe he's no Shaq, KG, Duncan but your pointing out some of the best period in the NBA. You don't need to be that good to get into the NBA HOF. He's probally top 15 all time at his position. He's been to the playoffs with 4 different teams now.

He was never the same after his injury but in his career year he did average 27 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.7 bpg in 40 mpg (70 games) @ 48% from the field.

[kidcolin]

kind of interesting Nellie article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...802130_pf.html

Actually, I just really love this part:

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While coaching the Knicks for an abbreviated 59 games in 1995-96, Nelson told me a story involving John Starks. He said a fan approached the former Knicks guard after a game and asked him to sign a pennant for his brother. "His name is Marc. Marc with a 'C.' "

When the fan got the pennant returned, Nelson said, it read, "To Cark." Marc with a "C," get it?

Nellie delighted in telling that story, prefacing it with, "This is how stupid John Starks is." He wanted Starks traded and was prepared to give up any information that might lead to that end.

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[Hornacek]

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People need to remember that this time last year people were penciling in the Pistons as the champs

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In bizarro world, maybe. This time last year people were still talking (as they have been for the last 4+ years) about how absurdly weak the East was and how the West would win, despite Detroit's regular season.

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ok most of the time you are spot on, but this time last year the Pistons were the favorite in the sports books (not a prohibitive favorite, but they were definitely the favorite). granted, playing in a weaker conference def helped their odds, but despite what YOUR opinion is, Las Vegas bookies had the Pistons as the favorite to win the title. I only know because I never ever bet on the Pistons, but I follow their betting lines rather closely. However, to say that people "penciled them in" is going a bit far.

[Hornacek]

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KC - he's basically 20/10 for his career, right?

-Al

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yup. But he's tripped at every major step of his career. He was never very popular in GS, got good love in Sacramento but blew it against the Lakers, had a decent half season in Philly before dogging his way out of there. Compare him to his peers: Duncan, KG, Shaq, etc.. does he really hold a candle to any of these guys?

I like CWebb good enough, but he just doesn't have it. Maybe he'll sniff it, but I really don't expect him to make it. Maybe Walton will campaign for him and he'll eventually get there.

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keep in mind we are talking about the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. The basketball HOF will also consider his days with the Fab Five, and how some argue they ushered in a "new era" with the baggy shorts, precociousness, etc. I think he gets in.

[kidcolin]

capone,

I'm not trying to hate on him. If he gets in it wouldn't really bother me. He just never struck me as a lock, or even a probable. I think we've had a thread on this before (last year-ish), which current NBA players are locks to make the hall if their careers ended today. I think the list was something like:

Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kidd
Kobe

I just think it's funny barry was complaining about how baseball's HOF is merely the Hall of very good (which I disagree with), then starts mentioning CWebb as a HOFer. He might be, but if you really want the HOF to be for the true elite of their time, he's not in, IMO.


Either way, I think he has it backwards. Joe Dumars made the Hall!

[Clarkmeister]

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People need to remember that this time last year people were penciling in the Pistons as the champs

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In bizarro world, maybe. This time last year people were still talking (as they have been for the last 4+ years) about how absurdly weak the East was and how the West would win, despite Detroit's regular season.

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ok most of the time you are spot on, but this time last year the Pistons were the favorite in the sports books (not a prohibitive favorite, but they were definitely the favorite). granted, playing in a weaker conference def helped their odds, but despite what YOUR opinion is, Las Vegas bookies had the Pistons as the favorite to win the title. I only know because I never ever bet on the Pistons, but I follow their betting lines rather closely. However, to say that people "penciled them in" is going a bit far.

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I would argue that the reason for their odds was significantly on the presumed ease of winning the conference. For example, this year the Pistons odds implied a better chance to win the title than Phoenix or San Antonio, but they would be dogs against either team in a 7-game series.

[kidcolin]

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keep in mind we are talking about the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. The basketball HOF will also consider his days with the Fab Five, and how some argue they ushered in a "new era" with the baggy shorts, precociousness, etc. I think he gets in.

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Might be right. btw I hate that it's a basketball HOF. Hollinger has a decent piece about it. Lots of NBA coaches get the shaft because of that.

[Clarkmeister]

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KC - he's basically 20/10 for his career, right?

-Al

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yup. But he's tripped at every major step of his career. He was never very popular in GS, got good love in Sacramento but blew it against the Lakers, had a decent half season in Philly before dogging his way out of there. Compare him to his peers: Duncan, KG, Shaq, etc.. does he really hold a candle to any of these guys?

I like CWebb good enough, but he just doesn't have it. Maybe he'll sniff it, but I really don't expect him to make it. Maybe Walton will campaign for him and he'll eventually get there.

[/ QUOTE ]

keep in mind we are talking about the basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF. The basketball HOF will also consider his days with the Fab Five, and how some argue they ushered in a "new era" with the baggy shorts, precociousness, etc. I think he gets in.

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Dunno, his days with the Fab Five totalled one year, and that year was wiped from the record books. It's too bad he was hurt so much of his career.

[Aloysius]

Some comments from my buddy - I don't see it being as straightforward as he puts it:

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I think SA was ambushed by PHX's defensive strategy and they'll do what all good teams do: adjust-
Move Duncan out a bit. which creates a lot more space against a man-to-man scheme
He was waiting for the double team in the post and it never came
NOw Duncan/Pop figure out how to take it back...
I think it's a dead-even series
But Michael Finley isn't going to miss wide-open 3PAs all And Kurt Thomas isn't Jesus Christ
He played a superlative KT game
And SAA won't turn the ball over like that again for 18 months
It's a best of five now with SAA getting Games 1, 2 and 4 at home

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-Al

[capone0]

Payton, AI (every MVP is in), Nash. Dirk is probally in with this years MVP. Webber is a cusp guy, but he's probally in. He isn't the most dominant, and he's been in the league with arguably 2 of the top 10 PFs of all time (maybe the best in Duncan), but in a lot of Eras he's be top 2. The only guys who are significantly better in the Era then him are Karl, Duncan and KG at the 4.