Obvious Collusion at *edited* (Long -Cliff Notes at bottom)

[daveT]

Matt Flynn is correct on this. But you may also want to look for "daubing," or marking the backs of cards. One effective way is to use lip gloss.

An aside to nailing the back of the card is that when you have it, you cannot see the mark, but from accross the table, it is clear as day light.

Mind you that a good hold-out artist would be undetectable.

I have seen cheats that play horrible, and I wouldn't want them out of my game.

But really, techniqus should be another thread, I just don't want to start it, but it would be "best of" worthy. The downside is that if you learn the techniques and how to identify them all, then the cheats will get better at cheating.

One time I was sitting at a table, where there were two colluders. They crunched someone all the way to the river (or maybe turn) and then the partner folded. Knowing what was happening, a player snatched the folded cards and threw them up for all to see: 63 offsoot.

There was a dealer (all the dealers knew they were cheats) and two props. No one said a word and the game continued.

[*TT*]

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There was a dealer (all the dealers knew they were cheats) and two props. No one said a word and the game continued.

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And the dealer shouldn't say a word, this is between the players and the floor/house. I don't know any dealers who are trained to catch cheats through betting patterns.

For what its worth, usually if the opponents are that bad that they try to collude by wip-sawing again and again in a limit game they usually suck at poker, and will get killed run. Just wait until you can crush them and never fold - let them put in all the raises and re-raises for you - then take their money - play passive, they will be agressive for you. Thank them on the way out the door for making your chip stack bigger.

[Matt Flynn]

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And the dealer shouldn't say a word, this is between the players and the floor/house. I don't know any dealers who are trained to catch cheats through betting patterns.

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i thought dealers were supposed to run games and help keep them clean.

[MicroBob]

Matt - pretty interesting stuff.

I had a nailed card at a WSOP event in 2005 but I was so new to live poker I had no idea what to do about it (request a new set-up or what).

I mentioned it to the dealer and he looked at me like, "What do you want me to do about it?"

Nobody else at the table seemed to care when I mentioned that one of the cards was pretty clearly marked including a couple of fairly big name pros (Huck Seed, Tom McEvoy).

Since I was so green to live-poker and these more experienced players didn't seem to think it was a big deal I didn't feel comfortable pressing the issue.

[*TT*]

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And the dealer shouldn't say a word, this is between the players and the floor/house. I don't know any dealers who are trained to catch cheats through betting patterns.

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i thought dealers were supposed to run games and help keep them clean.

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not that clean unfortunately. They are often trained to spot things like card markings, but not collusion through signaling or betting patterns.

[MNpoker]

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Poker Bob wrote:
"i have never seen anything that i suspected as collusion in any game at canterbury."

This statement makes the rest of your comments suspect. If you have spent years in a major cardroom and have never seen any eveidence of this you are super lucky or your name is Sgt. Schultz. Ask some of the dealers or manager about collusion if you know them well.

Topset72

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As I understand it, the new "no cell phones, no texting at the table" rule came in wake of players caught colluding by cell phone in some way, but this is unconfirmed.

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I heard they were taking like $12 an hour off the 2/4 table. LOL

[doublebluff]

I hate that the new thing that bad poker players do instead of just berate someone is start accusing people of colluding.

Things bad players should learn to deal with:
1. Your bad at poker and you going busto is only your fault.
2. Not everyone plays ABC poker at all times
3. Sometimes people play hands differently than you would/ play them in a way that doesn't make sense to you
4. Some people play hands different against certain players
5. I hate you, but i thank you for paying my rent
6. Your bad at poker.

[Mr. Mojo31]

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BB,

Thanks for this post. Definitely crossing Canterbury off the list on my Minnesota 30-60 LHE poker trip itinerary.

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This made the whole thread worthwhile.

Thanks EL D.

[jeffnc]

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I know the cost of living out here is WAY lower than LA... but I don't see how a "pro" could live in a state that allows the MAX bet of any poker game to be $60???

You'd have to play a ridiculous amount of hours or get absurdly lucky to make a living playing at this limit.

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wtf? Criminy, I could make a living playing $8/16 at the Bellagio. One step up from MacDonald's, but still...

[Nate.]

Matt--

I think one problem with training dealers to detect cheating patterns is that dealers have enough to pay attention to that doesn't involve the board texture. I think one well-respected dealer or ex-dealer here--maybe even RR?--said that he doesn't even look at what the board-cards are until showdown.

I'd imagine that some (but not all) other betting-pattern issues might be similarly outside the scope of the dealer's attention, and that to bring them within it would require an overhaul of the dealer's mental checklist.

--Nate