ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My hats off to you Meow. Question - If ZeeJustin started naming names and others started getting caught because of it would anyone feel any differently towards him?

[/ QUOTE ]

this would be AWESOME

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe then he would have exactly zero poker friends, as opposed to the 5 or 6 he probably still has now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think he could make new ones - sounds like the ones he has aren't the best company to keep.

[EarlOfSandwich]

The below doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Given that he's a pro and plays all the time, the number of times he ended up at the same table must be significant.

Ok, so what happens when he was dealt KK with one hand and JJ with another? AK versus AQ? There are actually a lot of combinations where one hand dominates the other. And given the speed of escalating blinds in these things, there's a lot of times when any of those hands would be an auto-allin, at least for us mortal players who pay our fee and play one hand.

Someone also pointed out that having six horses in a race is very different psychologically from having one. Fear of a bustout is a major motivating force for most players -- much less so if you have the repeatability factor of multiple accounts.

The guy won a *lot* of MTTs, and a number of big ones. He used an edge not available to the honest player. He probably took money out of people's pockets.

[ QUOTE ]
I believe he did listen to it. At least Im quite sure he didn't do anything like this since we spoke. In any case I know that there are many poker players who know ZJ a lot better than me. I also don't feel he was talking to me asking about whether it was ethical or not, he just kind of brought it up matter of factly, to which I expressed my feelings on the topic and directed him to the fact that I made a public statement against the practice in the past, that said I would turn anyone in who plans to multiaccount events in the future.

He was willing to tell me about this without any prodding, simply out of the blue. I can only imagine he has told many many others about this as well, and they never really told him how unethical it was, else I can't imagine why he would have pinpointed me in his statement.

If I recall correctly, the topic was brought up when I was asking what he thought was the highest attainable EV figures in the weekend tournaments. I basically commented tat no one will ever know since it would take years and years of playing them constantly before you have even a semblence of an accurate sample size, and by that time your skill level may have changed drasticaly and etc etc....at that point he mentioned that if people are using multiple accounts you can get reasonable figures much faster and etc etc.


btw I don't think this form of cheating was quite as bad as some people are making it out to be. By this I mean the circumstances involved, everyone was doing it, sites weren't speaking out against it, etc etc. Now that has changed, and not only do I agree that it's unethical, but its with the poker site's full support, which is what's really important. You can think someone is cheating/unethical all you want, but if the poker site you are playing on doesn't feel that way, then you are probably wrong, because all that really matters is the rules the poker site regulates against.

Anyway now it's very clear that Party and Stars agree that this is flat out cheating, and anyone who does so is undeniably a cheater. Sorry if I sound like I'm defending the action. I really do feel it was and is cheating, it's just that I feel that there are much more serious types of cheating that go on all the time, that actually have a serious affect on someones EV. This form of cheating in a very large field of players has a very minor effect at most.

[/ QUOTE ]

[excession]

The use of a perjorative term like 'ratting out' is ridiculous.

It's reeks of the frat boy mentality that is causing so much damage to the game.

You 'rat' out a fellow criminal to the police or maybe a fellow pupil to a teacher.

Meower isn't is the same criminal gang as ZJ or his cronies (though several of the ZJ apologists on this board may well be) - he isn't at school or in a fraternity with him - so why on earth does he owe him a duty to keep silent about his wrongdoing - especially when it amounts to stealing $$ from the rest of us? (note - not from the big bad Party, but from us)

Anyone who thinks Meower has done anything wrong at all in in serious need of an ethical education..

[suzzer99]

I'm taking a pool on when this thread passes the myspace thread.

I've got 1pm PT tomorrow (assuming this pool idea takes off somewhat).

[excession]

Wow !! So this is where moral relativism (and maybe watching too much TV like the Sopranos) leads you.

Look it isn't exactly the moral maze here - stealing and fraud are wrong - people who report it to the authorities/help the authorties to stop it are doing good - people who stay silent about it are complicit in the crime and doing bad.

See - not that tricky is it?

Ever heard of Pontius Pilate, the parable of the Good Samaritan or Pastor Martin Niemöller ?

And if you are so big on solidarity where is your solidarity with the vast majority of the posters here who play according to the rules and who you would happily have let ZJ and his cronies cheat out of their $$$ whilst you stood idly by?


If you really feel the glare of this exacting ethical inquisition into your personal morality to be 'reactionary' (!) maybe it's time to find somewhere with bit more shade..

[excession]

Well being lacking in moral fibre in perhaps a difficult situation doesn't make you a bad person - but would you be more worthy of respect if you had reported it? Sure.

by the way your school analogy is far worse than the robbery one... Meower isn't in school with ZJ - he isn't his frat buddy - he won;t get beaten up on campus if he reports him - he is the one of the guys that this scumbag is ripping off..

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay shaniac, then let me ask you the question I asked exitonly twice, and which he won't answer. He said that it is not his place to turn in cheaters he knows. He said that it is the online poker companies fault for not having safer software. So since this is just about different perspectives and not morals:


My buddy breaks into your house and steals your stuff while I watch him do it from outside. According to you, I'm not in the wrong for not doing anything about it. Your problem is with the lock companies for not making strong locks. You would not be upset at me in the slightest or expect me to do anything to stop him, right?

Does that about sum up your view? After all, it's not my duty to police thieves right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You manage to thoroughly skewer what I'm trying to say, and it seems like you are just another BLUFFTHIS-type knee-jerk reactionary.

But since you seem to understand little about loyalty, I will clue you into this much: If you did come along with your buddy to my house to steal from me, it would indeed be very wrong to turn him in for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What an idiotic perspective you have Shaniac. The poker world is full of people like you, unfortunately.

[costanza_g]

OK, I'll put in my 2 cents.

I'm selfish. Being a low stakes player I think the EV that I have lost from him cheating me is alot less then the EV I'm going to lose from no longer being able to read his strategy posts.

But that's just me.

(Only about 400 more posts to go!! Let's kick this myspace threads's ass!!!)

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll put in my 2 cents.

I'm selfish. Being a low stakes player I think the EV that I have lost from him cheating me is alot less then the EV I'm going to lose from no longer being able to read his strategy posts.

But that's just me.

(Only about 400 more posts to go!! Let's kick this myspace threads's ass!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good attitude!!!

Kind of like being happy the marriage counselor is giving you discount on your therapy sessions, only downfall is that he is [censored] your wife.

[ALReturnsLOL]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll put in my 2 cents.

I'm selfish. Being a low stakes player I think the EV that I have lost from him cheating me is alot less then the EV I'm going to lose from no longer being able to read his strategy posts.

But that's just me.

(Only about 400 more posts to go!! Let's kick this myspace threads's ass!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really know how many stratgey posts he had but I know he did not have very many recent hand posts. Some people speculate that this whole fiasco started when he posted a hand with the PP screen name bernard61.