The Vegetarian Torture

[LittleOldLady]

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I love this thread.

I don't hate vegetarians, but I think they are often self-righteous and pompous about their choices, e.g., all of Elaine's references to "eating flesh," and the like.

I also find some vegetarians ridiculous, i.e., the ones who believe that animals have "rights" and who somehow equate dogs, cats, cows, etc. with humans. "We all share the same earth," garbage like that.

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I would like to say that ELaine and Edward have never said one censorious thing to me about the fact that I eat meat and seafood. We eat together as a family at least once a week, and I am always consulted about what I can/cannot eat whether we are going out or eating a home-cooked meal. Edward called me yesterday with the recipe for the evening's main dish to be sure I could eat it. When we go to a restaurant I order meat or fish (mostly fish), and the rest of the family get something vegetarian--except for little Joey who usually gets chicken.

I have very stringent dietary restrictions, and for various reasons I cannot eat legumes, most raw salad veggies, eggs (I am restricted to very few), and most cheeses (which are too high in fat and sodium). Basically my two sources of protein are non-fat dairy products (which must be limited because of the carbs) and meat/fish (especially fish). I love fruits and vegetables and eat as much of those as my diet strictures and digestion permit.

I accept the fact that Edward's health has improved since he became a vegetarian. He lost weight (the vegetarian choice keeps him out of the fast food joints) and his blood chemistry improved significantly. I also appreciate his concern about factory farming and the mass use of hormones and antibiotics in modern animal husbandry. I do not think it is good to add those hormones/antibiotics to the human diet, and I have certainly reduced the quantity of meat I consume (I am restricted to a portion size of 2-3 ounces--think half a burger).

I, however, do not have a moral/ethical problem with eating meat/fish/poultry and other animal-derived foods (dairy, eggs, honey). Our anatomy and physiology (dentition, digestive apparatus, need to obtain certain amino acids in our diet) clearly indicate that we are omnivores, just as cats are carnivores and cows are herbivores. We are designed to eat animal protein, just as we are also designed to eat fruits and vegetables. Nature has its food chains, and we happen to be at the top of one. If we venture out of our domain and enter the ocean, we may end up being prey for the sharks at the top of that food chain.

If eating meat and fish has ethical and moral problems for some, if not for me, I think that the exploitation of migrant (and often illegal) workers by fruit and vegetable growers also presents moral and ethical problems. I did, after all, participate in the great grape boycott back in the day.

The world is an imperfect place, and each of us needs to find his/her own way to bring about a small improvement. In current Jewish thinking this is called tikkun olam (healing the world)--(usually) small unilateral acts that make an improvement. For some tikkun olam may be vegetarianism, for others something else.

Plants (for the most part) live by photosynthesis. Animals feed from other life forms. That's just the way it is.

[DrewDevil]

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Vegetarian because killing animals is bad - this one is where I just don't get it. It's like, look, there's an animal kingdom, there's a circle of life, there's a food chain, there's evolution, etc. Animals are not people, simple as that. I think a certain contingent of vegetarians tend to forget that.

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There are a number of things in this paragraph that are pretty stupid, to the point where I almost think you are joking. I am well aware that animals aren't people- I don't see how that would make me want to kill them. As for the food chain, who cares? Humans are obviously well beyond the food chain at this point, in the same way that science/technology/progress/whatever has freed humans from many of the limitations that nature once put on us. Saying that we should eat meat because of the food chain is like saying we shouldn't fly because we weren't born with wings.

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You have this backwards.

Humans are naturally omnivorous, so they don't need a reason to kill animals other than to eat them.

Vegetarians need a reason not to eat meat, and I've yet to hear any reasons that are convincing.

[Evan]

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Evan,

I am just weeping for all of the animals Elaine is murdering so she can serve flesh to her captive "pet."

[/ QUOTE ]No one "owns" a cat.

[The DaveR]

Way to extend MaxPower's last two sentences into a manifesto.

[El Ishmael]

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and his blood chemistry improved significantly.

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[SmileyEH]

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Way to extend MaxPower's last two sentences into a manifesto.

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I just want to feel involved!

-SmileyEH

[Paluka]

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Vegetarian because killing animals is bad - this one is where I just don't get it. It's like, look, there's an animal kingdom, there's a circle of life, there's a food chain, there's evolution, etc. Animals are not people, simple as that. I think a certain contingent of vegetarians tend to forget that.

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There are a number of things in this paragraph that are pretty stupid, to the point where I almost think you are joking. I am well aware that animals aren't people- I don't see how that would make me want to kill them. As for the food chain, who cares? Humans are obviously well beyond the food chain at this point, in the same way that science/technology/progress/whatever has freed humans from many of the limitations that nature once put on us. Saying that we should eat meat because of the food chain is like saying we shouldn't fly because we weren't born with wings.

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You have this backwards.

Humans are naturally omnivorous, so they don't need a reason to kill animals other than to eat them.

Vegetarians need a reason not to eat meat, and I've yet to hear any reasons that are convincing.

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I just don't give a [censored] about what we "naturally" are. Naturally I want to bang every hot girl I see whether she wants to bang me or not, that doens't mean I'm going to become a rapist. Advancing beyond our natural instincts and restrictions is part of what makes us different than other animals.

[Paluka]

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I'm not a vegetarian, but I can recognize all those reasons as valid. I certainly don't dispute the fact that a pound of beef hurts the world more than a pound of tofu, eating eggs from chickens grown in little boxes is cruel to the chickens, and killing/harming animals when there is no *need* to (not starving alone lost in the wilderness) is at least somewhat wrong.

However, the fact is - I just don't care enough about these reasons not to enjoy the food I love. Just as almost all of us don't care enough about kids in Africa to donate 10% of our income to adopting starving children, or care enough about safety to drive exactly at the speed limit instead of 10mph over thus increasing our's and others' fatality rate by 1% or whatever. We all make choices about how we will live our lives, and how "moral" we want to be. The welfare of egg producing chickens just isn't high on my (and 99% of people's) list, and the pleasure I get from eating a steak is more than the joy of knowing I saved 1 square foot of Brazilian rainforest from destruction.

-SmileyEH

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This is a great post. Well said.

[El Diablo]

LoL,

Excellent post.

[Shajen]

this thread rocks.

You know what I like the most?

Bacon.


BTW, I consulted my two cats, and they claimed they own me. So much for that idea...

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