ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[jman220]

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You guys never considered that this could lead to cheating?

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I think that most of us thought that if someone was so obvious as to PLAY MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS FROM THE SAME COMPUTER Party poker would have caught it immediately. I mean, for years there were multiple skins that theoretically could let you play at the same tables with yourself, but we all just assumed Party would catch this immediately as well. I guess we were all wrong.

[Clarkmeister]

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Clark,

I'm afraid I must disagree with some of the things you are saying.

I am disgusted by the "holier-than-thou" attitude that some (not all) people are taking. No one is perfect, and I would imagine that most of these people that are "parading in the streets" have their own skeletons in the closet. (That's not to say that i think they are cheating at poker, but it's reasonable to assume that somewhere in their life they have done "something" wrong.) Their sentiments reek of hypocrisy to me. It is possible to be satisfied with the outcome of this without the need for personal attacks.

Additionally, there have been many claims made that "lots" of players have cheated in the same manner as ZeeJustin and JJProdigy. In that regard, I do feel sorry for them as human beings because they have been singled out seemingly at random. It seems quite unreasonable for so much hatred to be directed towards them for particpating in a practice that alledgedly involves dozens of 2+2ers. These two players have been scapegoated.

It's not unfair that they were caught and punished... the injustice lies in the fact that others are getting away with the exact same thing.

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So you'd be ok with the vitriol if, and only if, *all* the cheaters were caught and exposed publicly? I don't think so.

I don't buy your whole premise. Who cares how they were caught, be it seemingly at random or not. Be they the only two cheaters in the world or two out of two million, it's quite normal and reasonable for people who play honestly to be really pissed at them. And when people come around and make really lame excuses, suggest that cheating is more ethical than informing officials of said cheating, and basically go with the "well, it's not so bad because it's so rampant" excuse, it just exacerbates the irritation levels of those who are playing honestly. And it should - because those attitudes will continue to foster an environment where the cheaters thrive, and will mitigate the pressure brought to bear on the poker sites to actually change their historiically lacksadasical attitude regarding the topic.

[Isura]

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y Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply

ZeeJustin,

If you are actually reading, do you want to apologize to this forum and the people who you've cheated?

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I wouldn't hold my breath. ZJ feels like he is the one that has been cheated.

[Burno]

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So you'd be ok with the vitriol if, and only if, *all* the cheaters were caught and exposed publicly? I don't think so.

I don't buy your whole premise. Who cares how they were caught, be it seemingly at random or not. Be they the only two cheaters in the world or two out of two million, it's quite normal and reasonable for people who play honestly to be really pissed at them. And when people come around and make really lame excuses, suggest that cheating is more ethical than informing officials of said cheating, and basically go with the "well, it's not so bad because it's so rampant" excuse, it just exacerbates the irritation levels of those who are playing honestly. And it should - because those attitudes will continue to foster an environment where the cheaters thrive, and will mitigate the pressure brought to bear on the poker sites to actually change their historiically lacksadasical attitude regarding the topic.

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Game-Set-Match, Clarkmeister

[Clarkmeister]

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I believe he was trying to be honest

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C'mon. Your whole post is really pretty sad, but this is pretty unbeleivable. For crying out loud - he lied in his "statement", why on earth would you think he was "trying to be honest"?

Again - this "everyone's doing it" nonsense has got to stop.

[DMBFan23]

Vava,

you're way off here IMO.

Multi accounting hurts the other players but not the poker sites (except through any lost business if word of the cheating spreads) and rakeback does not hurt other players but hurts the poker sites.

If you want to have a discussion of ethics, that's a separate issue and I apologize for calling you out on it, but if you're really surprised people think ZJ cheated to a higher degree because he is directly harming their bottom line, I'd be surprised. I personally agree with them. It's like who's the bigger criminal, Robin Hood or Hitler (NOT that ZJ is at that level, I just needed a dichotomy).

There IS a level of severity associated with a crime and equating rakeback with multiaccounting isn't going to stand well with a lot of ppl here. It's not just "well you cheat too" if you cheat WAY worse than me. Disclaimer; I dont play MTTs.

[Vavavoom]

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I believe he was trying to be honest

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C'mon. Your whole post is really pretty sad, but this is pretty unbeleivable. For crying out loud - he lied in his "statement", why on earth would you think he was "trying to be honest"?

Again - this "everyone's doing it" nonsense has got to stop.

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Clark,

Okay, he wasn't being honest and I don't condone it one bit. I meant to write that he thinks he was trying to be honest, yet he was being completely the opposite. I am horrified at the idea of multi-accounting fullstop. I think he was just very immature and looked at the easy $$$ instead of the ethics of poker as a whole.

However, If you think these are the only 2 people are doing it, then you need to take a look around. Why is my post sad, I made my points like everyone else in this thread...and some of my points are valid..

I said a lot more people are doing it then people think...And thats obvious...

Vava

[NajdorfDefense]

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All,

I wonder how long it will be until the IRS gets a tip about Zee, that is the real legal concern, not some weak wire fraud [censored].

J

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I wonder if cheaters are reporting all their bank transactions and wires over $10k or so?

What's that? They purposefully move around smaller amounts than that? Oh, that's a crime too. Look up structuring or, my favorite legal term, 'smurfing.'

Naj

[BassMasterK]

Vava,
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However, If you think these are the only 2 people are doing it, then you need to take a look around. Why is my post sad, I made my points like everyone else in this thread...and some of my points are valid..

I said a lot more people are doing it then people think...And thats obvious...

Vava

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We DON'T think they are the only two players doing it. If you read the whole thread, it is plain to see. Those of us who are honest are pissed. We're pissed people cheated. We're pissed the sites didn't have better detection software. We're pissed because we can now see that this is a widespread practice among a certain populace of MTT players. We're pissed that many people apparently have friends who cheat, but they don't think it is their place to say anything about it, out them, or turn them in. They seem to think it's fine they are cheating honest players since it doesn't affect 'them'.

I must say that your first post also made me unhappy when you said
"I personally feel sorry for Zee & JJ... They were both good players and I think they have been unfortunate in having money taken away..."

I wish you had the same sympathy for the people who they cheated out of tens of thousands of dollars.

IMHO your sympathy is very misplaced.

[Clarkmeister]

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Vava,
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However, If you think these are the only 2 people are doing it, then you need to take a look around. Why is my post sad, I made my points like everyone else in this thread...and some of my points are valid..

I said a lot more people are doing it then people think...And thats obvious...

Vava

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We DON'T think they are the only two players doing it. If you read the whole thread, it is plain to see. Those of us who are honest are pissed. We're pissed people cheated. We're pissed the sites didn't have better detection software. We're pissed because we can now see that this is a widespread practice among a certain populace of MTT players. We're pissed that many people apparently have friends who cheat, but they don't think it is their place to say anything about it, out them, or turn them in. They seem to think it's fine they are cheating honest players since it doesn't affect 'them'.

I must say that your first post also made me unhappy when you said
"I personally feel sorry for Zee & JJ... They were both good players and I think they have been unfortunate in having money taken away..."

I wish you had the same sympathy for the people who they cheated out of tens of thousands of dollars.

IMHO your sympathy is very misplaced.

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