Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[Gobgogbog]

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Yeah okay Ive changed my mind, Im definitely in favor of a split. Look at the front page, its ridiculous. The interesting hands get buried way too fast.

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That is a bad reason. This will continue to occur with split forums, but merely at a slower rate.

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I'm confused. Are you saying the interesting hands will get buried way too fast at a slower rat?

[pooh74]

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Yeah okay Ive changed my mind, Im definitely in favor of a split. Look at the front page, its ridiculous. The interesting hands get buried way too fast.

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That is a bad reason. This will continue to occur with split forums, but merely at a slower rate.

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I'm confused. Are you saying the interesting hands will get buried way too fast at a slower rat?

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All I am saying is that if people do not respond overwhelming to the interesting hands now, what about split forums will cure this? It was a merely a way of saying that "what appears on page 1" is not a great reason to split a forum in two. I don't think hands getting "buried" is the reason they are not getting replys.

Am I crazy to think this? I mean, I am really surprised at the vote tally and would be surprised if it really reflected the core of the forum.

[ZeeJustin]

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Yeah okay Ive changed my mind, Im definitely in favor of a split. Look at the front page, its ridiculous. The interesting hands get buried way too fast.

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That is a bad reason. This will continue to occur with split forums, but merely at a slower rate.

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I'm confused. Are you saying the interesting hands will get buried way too fast at a slower rat?

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All I am saying is that if people do not respond overwhelming to the interesting hands now, what about split forums will cure this? It was a merely a way of saying that "what appears on page 1" is not a great reason to split a forum in two. I don't think hands getting "buried" is the reason they are not getting replys.

Am I crazy to think this? I mean, I am really surprised at the vote tally and would be surprised if it really reflected the core of the forum.

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Yes you are crazy. Look at RGP. Why do you think meaningful discussion is so rare there? It's a clusterfuck. There certainly is plenty of talent for meaningful discussions there, but the news group isn't conducive to it.

Look at the LHE forums here. There are 6 different LHE forums, and each one has great discussion. If instead of the 6 different LHE forums, 3 NL forums, 2 tourney frums, 2 omaha forums, and 1 stud forum, there was just 1 big Strategy Forum, do you really think much meaningful discussion would happen there?

Sure, players could scan looking for nothing but $15/$30 Party LHE hands, and only post in those threads, but it would be a huge pain.

Clean organized forums have been a key ingredient to 2+2's success.

[jb9]

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But now I feel like I have most of the strategy down cold, and I've largely stopped responding to low-stakes strategy posts because I can only say "Bet out, fold to any significant heat" so many times before my head explodes.

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I voted yes so that people who feel like this (and some day I hope to feel like this) will have somewhere else to go, although I confess that the thought of another entry on that left hand navigation bar depresses me (what font size is that? 6 point?).

I think in order to keep the forum discussions actively about STTs, there needs to be a fairly regular influx of new, inexperienced players that will ask the same questions we all asked when we started. Some of these players will eventually become very good and may contribute significantly to everyone's understanding of the game or create some new software tool that benefits everyone.

But they need a place to come to ask if they should fold KK to a raise and a re-raise preflop at the 11s. True, they could use the search engine, but (1) it sucks, (2) by the time they figure out how to use it they will know the answer, and (3) sometimes people get tired of just reading stuff and want to get actively involved so they ask the best question they can think of. Sometimes asking that question is more important than the answer to the question -- it's what changes lurkers into contributors.

There are much worse crimes against a strategy forum than posting a simple question, so I don't think the answer to too much clutter is to discourage new players from posting their thoughts. If there are enough high stakes players to support another forum, then I see no reason not to give it a chance (except of course for what it will do to the font size of the navigation bar).

[BAK]

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And who posts OT posts? Not people who plays the 11's.

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no they REPLY to the ot posts

if ot posters wanted 200 replies to their threads they'd need to go to low stakes to get it

not getting 200 replies would make them less likely to post again in hi stakes etc etc etc

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So the plan is that we will split the forum and only people who play at the high limits are allowed to post or to repond to other peoples posts in the high limits forum? I only got this far, so sorry if that has been spelled out clearly somewhere else.

But then, I guess this is the type of post you are trying to avoid having to deal with. Sorry.

[bobbyi]

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Look at the LHE forums here. There are 6 different LHE forums, and each one has great discussion.

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When I started reading twoplustwo, there were essentially three LHE forums and zero NLHE forums (in theory, pot-limit and no-limit was lumped into the high stakes limit forum). All of these forums we have now were added over time because in each case there was an active, vocal core of players who wanted to post there. Nobody said "gee, if we add more LHE forums, maybe new posters will appear out of nowhere to fill them up". The community for each forum already existed. I don't think that is the case with a high-stakes STT forum now.

[Melchiades]

Good point bobbyi. I think some people underestimate how many people it takes to have a forum stay alive. The 5-10 highstakes posters who wants an own forum plus 5-10 more starting to post since they now have their highstakes forum is probably not enough.

If posts don't get generated at a steady pace, no one will bother checking back for new replies which again will lead to even fewer posts, etc

[ZeeJustin]

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Look at the LHE forums here. There are 6 different LHE forums, and each one has great discussion.

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When I started reading twoplustwo, there were essentially three LHE forums and zero NLHE forums (in theory, pot-limit and no-limit was lumped into the high stakes limit forum). All of these forums we have now were added over time because in each case there was an active, vocal core of players who wanted to post there. Nobody said "gee, if we add more LHE forums, maybe new posters will appear out of nowhere to fill them up". The community for each forum already existed. I don't think that is the case with a high-stakes STT forum now.

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You've had the community of players for a long time, but you've had no place for us. We want a home damnit.

If you dont think there are many high stakes sng players that post on 2+2, you are dead wrong. Most of the great MTT posters play big sngs when they're not playing MTT's. They don't post here, because their forum is much better.

Here's a list of names off the top of my head:

Me
Jman28
Citanul
Curtains
Raptor
FieryJustice
Daliman
Shaniac
Ansky
MDK
Ilya
Rojo

I'm sure there are a ton more names, but this is what I came up with in the 60 seconds I spent thinking about it.

[Melchiades]

And I still (for the third time) challenge ZJ to post a hand he thinks warrants in depth discussion to see what happens to that post. In my experience when a big name player posts a hand all the other highstakes posters come out of the woodwork.

But if it either just slides off the frontpage without any discussion or it only gets replies from lowstakes posters telling him to push preflop I guess he has a point.

[ZeeJustin]

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Good point bobbyi. I think some people underestimate how many people it takes to have a forum stay alive. The 5-10 highstakes posters who wants an own forum plus 5-10 more starting to post since they now have their highstakes forum is probably not enough.

If posts don't get generated at a steady pace, no one will bother checking back for new replies which again will lead to even fewer posts, etc

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Again, empirical evidence shows otherwise. Look at the MHNL forum. There are only 6-8 hand posts per day, and there's a core group of around 10-20 posters, yet the forum still generates amazing discussion.

Hands are often analyzed for a week before they die, and this can only happen in a lower traffic environment. It would not be able to happen in this forum.