Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game - Page 24

MEbenhoe · #**231** 05-31-2007, 01:37 PM

I wouldn't put too much weight in percentages, but just for kicks Hakeem and Robinson's career FG, 3PT, and FT %s are all higher than Duncan's even with both of them taking a hit on these in their last few seasons.

kidcolin · #**232** 05-31-2007, 01:38 PM

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I understand what you're saying, but teams like this with a good mix of experienced vets contributing solid minutes and young up and coming players, mixed in with one or two superstar players perform very well in the NBA.

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You're stumbling Meb.. this is pretty much what Hakeem had. A superstar in Hakeem, solid vets in Vernon, Otis Thorpe, and Kenny Smith, and up and comers in Horry and Cassell. I still think SA's '02-'03 lineup was better (by a decent margin, too), but at least people are starting to realize Ginobili and Parker of yore weren't anything special like they are now (G-Nob especially). They were a well balanced team with a superstar to anchor them.

gusmahler · #**233** 05-31-2007, 01:48 PM

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Wilt was the greatest stat whore of all time. it took him 8 seasons to wise up. Jordan was right behind him until Phil Jackson came along and wised his ass up.

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You do realize that Jordan led the league in scoring every year he qualified for it (except his rookie year) during his stint with the Bulls, right?

kidcolin · #**234** 05-31-2007, 01:49 PM

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i think 1.2 blocks over an entire career is huge... you also have to adjust for pace and taking that into account the wallace's probably become non-existant and the blocks advantage more pronounced... then it probably boils down to wallaces steals vs. eaton's blocks... and i'm pretty sure a block is worth more than a steal..

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It's huge, but blocks are somewhat overrated. It got Camby a DPOY award even though there are doubts about his defensive prowess (mainly a strong help defender). They're nice, of course, but is it any better than a steal? A steal is a turnover, a block less than. Anyway, the glaringly bad stat for Eaton is being a 7'4" dude in there for his defense only pulling 9 boards a game. Ben pulling an extra 3+ is huge.

edit: I just checked 82games.com and it appears I'm giving Camby a bit of a bad wrap. My point still stands, though.

blindside · #**235** 05-31-2007, 01:56 PM

again, boards are heavily weighted towards pace and opportunities(missed shots)...

yes steals result in a turnover which negates a possession... however a blocked shot is usually a shot in the 5-8 ft range if not a layup the grand majority of the time... and i am pretty damn sure the EV on shots in the paint are worth more than the EV of the average NBA possession...

edit: and you also have to consider that they affect more shots, that don't wind up getting blocked, than someone who has less blocks... while a steal is a steal is a steal...

rubbrband · #**236** 05-31-2007, 01:57 PM

Here is a list of career shooting %'s
FG FT
Shaq .580 .525
Kareem .559 .721
McHale .554 .798
Wilt .540 .511
Robinson .518 .736
Hakeem .512 .712
Duncan .509 .680
Ewing .504 .740
Garnett .491 .780
Russell .440 .561

This should help clear up some arguments.

Mano · #**237** 05-31-2007, 02:09 PM

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Here is a list of career shooting %'s
FG FT
Shaq .580 .525
Kareem .559 .721
McHale .554 .798
Wilt .540 .511
Robinson .518 .736
Hakeem .512 .712
Duncan .509 .680
Ewing .504 .740
Garnett .491 .780
Russell .440 .561

This should help clear up some arguments.

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The one puzzling thing about Duncan is how he has regressed in his FT shooting. He clearly worked at it early in his career, and was a very good (~80%) FT shooter in the 01-02 season (not surprisingly, his best year offensively) but has tailed off sharply since then. Don't know if it is mental or just lack of reps, but if TD could return to hitting ~ 80% FT's his game would elevate even more.

kidcolin · #**238** 05-31-2007, 02:10 PM

blindside,

I had thought about that, but you also have to realize Wallace gets most of his steals on strips and pokes in the paint, where the opposing team is primed to score. So if you value the theoretical value of the blocked shot, it's probably around 1.5-1.8 points. The steal is probably 1.2-1.4 or so.

Also, I'm not sure your point about pace. Eaton's Jazz played a much faster pace than Wallace's Pistons. So Eaton had more opportunities than Wallace did.

edit: the more numbers I look at, the Jazz were WAY faster. They were often in the top 5-7 of the league, whereas the Pistons are always, always near the very bottom. On top of that, the league-wide pace factor was higher in the Jazz's day than the current era.

rubbrband · #**239** 05-31-2007, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a list of career shooting %'s
FG FT
Shaq .580 .525
Kareem .559 .721
McHale .554 .798
Wilt .540 .511
Robinson .518 .736
Hakeem .512 .712
Duncan .509 .680
Ewing .504 .740
Garnett .491 .780
Russell .440 .561

This should help clear up some arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

The one puzzling thing about Duncan is how he has regressed in his FT shooting. He clearly worked at it early in his career, and was a very good (~80%) FT shooter in the 01-02 season (not surprisingly, his best year offensively) but has tailed off sharply since then. Don't know if it is mental or just lack of reps, but if TD could return to hitting ~ 80% FT's his game would elevate even more.

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He shot .761 3rd year, .618 4th, .799 5th, .710 6th, and .599 7th... looks like variance to me.

rubbrband · #**240** 05-31-2007, 02:33 PM

Looking more closely at stats I find that I was over valuing Russell and undervaluing Robinson.

New Top 5 might look like this
1)Shaq
2)Wilt
3)Kareem
4)Robinson
5)Duncan