I own mike mautsow

[goofyballer]

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We also have highstakes's datamining, which does not cover 25/50 but which shows him being down 10K more than the PT stats indicate. Highstakes cannot explain this difference since he doesnt have access to the PT data, but his explanation is that it is possibly an error in PT, in his data mining, or somewhere in the site software.

...

I think the data mining is inaccurate and highstakes, himself, does not confirm its accuracy.

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Datamining doesn't just make up hands where none exist, dude. When you're observing a table, FTP saves hands that occur on your HD just like any HH you're playing in. These hands are not more or less likely to have figures that are off by $10k in them as hands that you play yourself.

[Rolen]

Hi all,

Nath, I don't understand your suprise at my insistence of my claim. After TWP offered the 1K prop bet and I accepted, it stands to reason that i'll defend myself vigorously.

TWP, it's looking unlikely we'll ever find a satisfactory source just asking around. I propose a last ditch effort; that we do as suggested and offer $100 to a dataminer(s?) that can resolve it to our satisfaction. We must agree to both do this or it may encourage falsified data. If this doesn't produce results, i'm ready to bury our bet.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Rolen, I am willing to offer $100 to a data miner who can satisfactorily resolve this issue. I am also willing to let you buy out of the wager for $50.

- TWP

[apefish]

TWP- Didn't Rolen say he would accept those numbers if g2cus higher table numbers also were the same as the datamined numbers- which they arent.
The whole agreement was predicated on a non interested third party that both of you could agree to. Maybe you are just asking if g2cus buddies can be that?

I am eager to see movement on resolution also- but I dont think that is what he had in mind.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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We also have highstakes's datamining, which does not cover 25/50 but which shows him being down 10K more than the PT stats indicate. Highstakes cannot explain this difference since he doesnt have access to the PT data, but his explanation is that it is possibly an error in PT, in his data mining, or somewhere in the site software.

...

I think the data mining is inaccurate and highstakes, himself, does not confirm its accuracy.

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Datamining doesn't just make up hands where none exist, dude. When you're observing a table, FTP saves hands that occur on your HD just like any HH you're playing in. These hands are not more or less likely to have figures that are off by $10k in them as hands that you play yourself.

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PT often gets my hands wrong for some reason. I find more hands, I find fewer hands, I find all types of random crap. Also, it is quite possible that Highstakes simply included a wrong session or something in his analysis. That's why I asked him for start and end times for each session as well as number of hands per session. He said he would provide this information, but then apparently is not following through on that. My guess is that his error will be spottable there.

[apefish]

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Rolen, I am willing to offer $100 to a data miner who can satisfactorily resolve this issue. I am also willing to let you buy out of the wager for $50.

- TWP

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Ooh this could be exciting. Barter time.
Quick- Rolen- offer him a goat or 8 chickens.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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TWP- Didn't Rolen say he would accept those numbers if g2cus higher table numbers also were the same as the datamined numbers- which they arent.
The whole agreement was predicated on a non interested third party that both of you could agree to. Maybe you are just asking if g2cus buddies can be that?

I am eager to see movement on resolution also- but I dont think that is what he had in mind.

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I know what he had suggested, and I agreed with his suggestion. I PMed g2cu to ask him to facilitate that type of comparison, but he refused - as would I in his situation. He has basically nothing to gain from this and it's a pain in the ass. He also would potentially be giving away information about his play by sending out his HHs.

My post is saying that I believe the preponderence of the evidence supports my side of the wager. Sufficient for me to win the bet. How else would g2cu have provided his BR before the session and his BR after the session and have that match up with the PT stats when the PT stats were not available, if he were not being accurate?

[apefish]

TWP- I understand that. I was just pointing out that your offer seemed um.. well...I'll let him decide for himself.

Quick- offer to let him out for a sack of rice and a skillet.

Also- I am fairly sure that a preponderance of evidence, while applying as a concept in many situations, probably doesnt follow the terms of the agreement as laid out earlier- which were precise numbers/matching sources.
Hell- 51-49 is preponderance but no way in hell you can settle this by a vote.... or can you?????

hmm... this development could have exciting implications.

[Rolen]

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OK, to summarise:

We have Jman28, Inyaface, and raptor517 all confirming that he, indeed, won the 10K. From good2cu, we have a screen shot, and I have in PM his starting and ending bankroll which indeed are more than 10K apart. They are precisely as far apart, in fact, as the screen shot would indicate and this PM was before he had the PT stats available.

We also have a few additional people (e.g. Dean) vouching for g2cu's general trustworthiness and unlikelihood of being inaccurate in his representation of his results.

We also have highstakes's datamining, which does not cover 25/50 but which shows him being down 10K more than the PT stats indicate. Highstakes cannot explain this difference since he doesnt have access to the PT data, but his explanation is that it is possibly an error in PT, in his data mining, or somewhere in the site software.

My view is that the fact that the PM (which I can share if g2cu allows) is from before the PT stats were available and precisely confirms the amount won indicated by the PT screen shot, along with the confirmation from Jman, IYF, and Raptor, shows sufficient proof for me to win the bet. I think the data mining is inaccurate and highstakes, himself, does not confirm its accuracy.

Rolen, do you agree?

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What do you think. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously though, the issue of contention is G2CU's trustworthiness on 2+2. Him telling other people that he won 10K is nothing and you know that.

The PM's you have regarding his online bankroll is interesting, but not IMO as interesting as an independant source that shows that G2CU's own PT data might be false. As Dean pointed out, if we take highstakes' data and add it to G2CU's 25/50, I win the bet. But I wouldn't think that this would be enough to resolve it.

As long as we do not have have two data sources that we both agree are valid and almost identical, we can't settle the bet. We're still missing 10K somewhere.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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Seriously though, the issue of contention is G2CU's trustworthiness on 2+2. Him telling other people that he won 10K is nothing and you know that.

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Just to clarify: Bonafone, Deuce2High, TraverstyFund and potentially others can confirm his results first-hand. They watched the session. If they confirmed the 10K results, from personal experience and not by having heard results from g2cu, in this thread, would you consider that sufficient proof?

In case you wonder, I do not know any of these people and have never met nor spoken with any of these people. If three or more of these people all post in this thread that they observed the session and that the winnings were NOT 9750K+, I will consider that sufficient to pay you.