New Fight Question

[ColdDecker333]

Worlds best martial arts guys don´t bother to go into shows like UFC.

Also weight issue is huge. People here don´t seem to understand that the very best light to mid-weight guys are those korean or some other asian martial arts gurus, not some fighter from UFC show. Of course heavy weight UFC guys has advantage over mid weight martial arts specialist, but the question was if the weight is the same. Worlds best martial arts guys are not heavy weights.

Boxer is out of question, because of the weight rule and also because legs are more deadly than hands if rules allow both.

Seal is out because he´s not really trained to bare hand man-to-man fight. Of course best seal is very good in that area too, but not master like martial arts of UFC guy. Maybe like 1/100 of total training of a special forces soldier is man-to-man fight without weapons. For martial arts, UFC and boxer guy that is the only thing they train.


Also arguing about fighting in general is very stupid, because hurting other people is very stupid in every form.

[mak15]

i think people are not taking into enough consideration the fact that all 5 of them will be in the ring at the same time making it pretty much impossible to apply submission and really hurting the UFC guys, who also are trained specifically to fight one opponent.

i think the martial arts expert wins.

[Dementia]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys (including Mr. Sklansky) are still focused almost entirely on technique. The fact remains time spent actually *killing* in combat is a valuable skill that cannot be trained for or taught.

[/ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if all of these SEALS and the military at a whole are just sitting on a comfortable base somewhere in the States. You remember they are out there getting blown up every single month overseas, right? Or have you not been following that situation? It's completely fair to assume the 'worlds most respected' Seal in terms of hand to hand combat has tasted his share of war time.

Or are the UFC fighters more challenged because they are forced to excercise and trained to fight one another for the amusement of the fans, good money, and notoriety? Sure they push themselves to the limit physically to win matches, but are they shot at routinely? Have they persevered while their buddies were blown to all hell and still performed their duties? This is a fight to the death remember, my money is on the most respected/accomplished Seal in the country.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys (including Mr. Sklansky) are still focused almost entirely on technique. The fact remains time spent actually *killing* in combat is a valuable skill that cannot be trained for or taught. [ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if all of these SEALS and the military at a whole are just sitting on a comfortable base somewhere in the States. You remember they are out there getting blown up every single month overseas, right? Or have you not been following that situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. The quote you are referring to is supporting your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure they push themselves to the limit physically to win matches, but are they shot at routinely? Have they persevered while their buddies were blown to all hell and still performed their duties?

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize this is one on one hand to hand combat that we are discussing right? Being shot at or watching your buddies die while you do your job has zero bearing on a man to man physical fight.

[ QUOTE ]
This is a fight to the death remember, my money is on the most respected/accomplished Seal in the country.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most of you seem not to understand how close the end of a UFC/Pride match is to a fight to the death. The opponent is either unconcious or "disabled". "Disabled" meaning had they not tapped out they would have had a limb broken or been choked out.

[Dementia]

Of course being shot at or blown up doesn't translate to proficiency in a weapon-free fight, but the experience they have is actually being around death (the point I was trying to make). They stare it in the face daily, whereas the UFC fighters grapple with a referee, someone to end it before it escalates to the point of death. The same death those fine soldiers are forced to witness and create every time they are attacked.

[pete fabrizio]

I still think people are underestimating the #1 SEAL/elite military hand-to-hand combatant. This person, whoever he may be, is probably instructing other elite fighters in how to kill people in hand to hand combat. This means this person has probably studied this topic with extraordinary depth, and probably has a great deal of experience with it -- likely having killed many men himself. This man will be highly trained, very talented, and probably somewhat ferocious. In the military elite, killing people is their business, it's not just some diversionary sport, and the best of the best is going to be sick hard core.

So I guess I'm saying I don't think David's reformulated question is going to be dispositive, since there's a lot more involved than just the "SEAL Training."

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think people are underestimating the #1 SEAL/elite military hand-to-hand combatant. This person, whoever he may be, is probably instructing other elite fighters in how to kill people in hand to hand combat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually MMA fighters instruct SEALs on hand to hand combat. SEALs spend approximately 0% of their time learning to kill with their bare hands. As has been stated 100 times in this thread they spend the majority of their time training with to be stealthy, kill with guns, kill with knives, and use explosives.

[ QUOTE ]
This means this person has probably studied this topic with extraordinary depth, and probably has a great deal of experience with it -- likely having killed many men himself. This man will be highly trained, very talented, and probably somewhat ferocious.

[/ QUOTE ]

The top SEAL may have killed many men himself, but very very few of those kills will be weaponless hand to hand combat. The MMA fighter is also highly trained, very talented, and ferocious.

[ QUOTE ]
In the military elite, killing people is their business, it's not just some diversionary sport, and the best of the best is going to be sick hard core.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, their business is protecting the men and women of their country. Sometimes killing is necessary to do so.

You can hardly say MMA fighters are participating in some diversionary sport. They dedicate their entire lives to becoming masters of the sport.

[Sanchez1Fan]

this is the first relivant post from the seal forum

RE: Top Seal vs Top UFC Champion Of Same Wieght, Who Wins?

Sunday December 3, 2006 5:14 AM




"No SEAL here but I say the UFC guy hands down. Of course, he'd win. That's all he trains for is this type of fighting. Now in a gun fight, who do you think would win?? "

http://www.navyseals.com/community/f...topicid=149067

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course being shot at or blown up doesn't translate to proficiency in a weapon-free fight, but the experience they have is actually being around death (the point I was trying to make). They stare it in the face daily, whereas the UFC fighters grapple with a referee, someone to end it before it escalates to the point of death. The same death those fine soldiers are forced to witness and create every time they are attacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being around death isn't going to help them in a hand to hand combat scenario unless for some reason the MMA fighter panics. I don't think that is particularly likely as these guys are focused fighting machines as well.

[kdotsky]

A fighters ability is not just a summation of the techniques he knows. It is more of a hierarchy. At the bottom contains the most fundamental skills. You build fancier and more complex techniques on top of the core skills, which are most important.

Consider a Michael Jordan that had never tried doing a slam dunk or a hook shot, and a good high school basketball player that knows how to do hook shots and slam dunks. Michael Jordan is so much better at the fundamental skills like dribbling, defense, etc that the high school player probably wouldn't even get to use the jump shot or slam dunk against him. You could probably make a similar analogy with poker skill.

The UFC fighter is so much better at the core of what matters in fighting -- wrestling, grappling, balance, controlling your opponent's body, etc -- that the SEAL would never have get into a position where he is able to do some sort of uninhibited finishing move, if it exists.