ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[Jooka]

they should take the roll, payout anything that would belong to those they cheated then freeroll the rest of the roll to the entire site.

[runout_mick]

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I'm sure this angle has been posted, but with 90+ pages, I didn't see it.

Its important to recognize a small semantic argument. These guys didn't cheat the poker sites; they cheated the poker playing community. This is important because I believe it has ramifications about penalties and how those penalties are applied. Poker rooms spread games, provide a shuffle and deal hands. For that, they take a fee (rake).

It is the players who are competing against each other; thus when a player breaks commonly accepted rules to gain an unfair advantage, he/she is cheating against the other players. In this case, the cheating actually was an initial positive to the sites due to increased rake (though probably a net wash due to the negative publicity).

I feel that any funds confiscated need to be given back to the player community and moreover, it should be public information how the money was distributed. Its the only way for the site to remain credible in continuing to spread an honest game. There is absolutely no circumstance where the house can take monies confiscated from cheating and keep it. Players need to unite behind this area because at the end of the day, we OWN the games, the site is simply managing them. Certainly, redistributing specific wins to other participants in a specific MTT is one of the correct methods, but when ancillary funds are confiscated because the player was found out to be a cheat, those monies should go back to the player community at large in one form or another. In other words, the house should never benefit from uncovering abuses to the games as this is an implicit responsibility in spreading the games.

Fm

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THIS has been my feeling all along.

Thanks for articulating it.

By being allowed to keep the confiscated funds, Party has incentives to NOT close the loopholes that encourage cheating.

JMO...

[jb9]

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It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

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That's what you think. I think it's the central point of the thread, but we'll never get to know that. Good bye.

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Really? Hope you are making a bad joke, but in case you aren't...

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

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[BassMasterK]

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I'm starting to think that people who criticize Stars for not clamping down enough on alleged cheaters are just idiots. Unilaterally confiscating $100,000 after conducting an "internal" investigation and deciding that certain prohibited but previously ignored activities violate your illegal and unenforceable terms and conditions (you clicked on these when you signed up at Party) is a brilliant way to take a company down.

In fact, it's the best way Party can become hopelessly embroiled in the US legal system. Unfortunately, Party's IPO prospectus notes that its directors may be subject to criminal prosecution if found within the US. [For people who think Party could sue JJProdigy or ZeeJustin, LOLOL]

Seriously, from an informed legal perspective Party's actions are not only dumb, they are suicidal and threaten to kill some of your golden geese much more effectively than Grandma ever could. It won't hurt US investors very much, however, because it's a federal offense for US investors to buy Party's stock.

Party's taking such a hard-line stand without an ounce of subtlety, reflection, or an iota of legal authority is the best thing that it can do if it wants to cease to exist as a company.

Some people need to go beyond the first level of moral reasoning (El Diablo, do you understand now, can you help?) and open up their eyes to the consequences of making examples out of people.

Stars, however, is aware of the complexities involed with confiscation of peoples' funds and have crafted a policy designed to deal with these complexitiees. That is smart.

By the way, if Party has found you "cheating" and confiscated funds from you, PM me. You will be glad you did.

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Okay, I have disagreed with your last three posts so apparently I must be an idiot. I can lay out my case and maybe you can point out why those of us who think Party did the right thing, and stars did not go are enough, are idiots.

First off, as others have tried to make the shoplifting analogy where the police don't come and confiscate your personal property at home, except maybe in Saudi Arabia: this is incorrect. If you get caught shoplifting, most shops call the police. Yes, at that time you only return that which you stole. But then you appear in court. You may have costs associated with an attourney. Depending on your state you may be assessed fines of $1500+. (This would be for a small item. In this instance people were cheated out of possibly tens of thousands for a final table finish. If you get busted stealing something that valuable the penalty is obviously way higher). You will probably do community service. There is also the possibility of jail time if you are a repeat offender. As you can see, even in a simple case of shoplifting, THE GUILTY PARTY PAYS BACK WAAAAAY MORE THAN JUST THE VALUE OF WHAT THEY STOLE.

Now we have a more serious problem here because these companies are not stationed in America and do not have to adhere to American law. They can't impose confinement on a cheater, so the only additional penalty they CAN impose is related to additional fines and/or confiscating monies of the guilty parties.

So aeest400, you seem to be connected in the legal field (I am guessing by your last sentance) so maybe you can answer a few questions for us idiots.

How is ZJ going to file suit against Party? Is he going to Gibraltar to file suit? Don't think so, although that would be interesting because then they COULD try him under their laws and possibly confine him in addition to taking his money.

Is he going to sue them in American court? How? Playing online is already a gray area legally. Lets say he did and he somehow won a judgement. Now what? Is the government of Gibraltar held by American law? Are we taking them over after we are done in Iraq?

How does he get around their terms and conditions which I just read through and they clearly state that if you are caught cheating they can close your account and confiscate your funds:

THE COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT, IN ITS UNFETTERED DISCRETION AND IN RELATION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, ANY RELATED ESP ACCOUNT, ANY ACCOUNTS YOU MAY HAVE WITH OTHER SITES AND/OR CASINOS AND/OR SERVICES OWNED OR OPERATED BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE COMPANY AND ANY SERVICES THAT SHARE THE SHARED GAME/TABLE PLATFORM, TO WITHHOLD YOUR ACCOUNT BALANCE, SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT, AND RECOVER ANY PAY-OUTS, BONUSES AND WINNINGS

That was taken from their account. It doesn't say 'winning from cheating". He has probably already cashed out money that they can't recover from before he was caught. He is still ahead in the long run and he doesn't deserve to be.

I agree with ElD that Stars has dropped the ball on this. You need to make the penalty stiff enough that people will not want to cheat. To just take only the cash won through what cheating they CAN detect is akin to taking the shoplifter, taking what you caught him taking THIS TIME, and shooing him out the door. This might have been the way they handled shoplifters in the '50s but times have changed. I will not be playing at Stars until they get more of a hard line against cheaters.

[aeest400]

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Seriously, from an informed legal perspective Party's actions are not only dumb, they are suicidal and threaten to kill some of your golden geese much more effectively than Grandma ever could.

By the way, if Party has found you "cheating" and confiscated funds from you, PM me. You will be glad you did.

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What do you mean by "an informed legal perspective"?

Why the request for PM's?

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An informed legal perspective=an experienced lawyer who knows why what Party did is illegal and how, despite the rosey scenario painted in their Prospectus, they can very likely be made to answer for it in US court.

The PM request is to see if Party's actions have been at all widespead, because I know a lot of lawyers who would be interested in this case. If they took my money, I'd sue the hell out of them.

[Nick B.]

Why people hate lawyers...

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An informed legal perspective=an experienced lawyer who knows why what Party did is illegal and how, despite the rosey scenario painted in their Prospectus, they can very likely be made to answer for it in US court.

The PM request is to see if Party's actions have been at all widespead, because I know a lot of lawyers who would be interested in this case. If they took my money, I'd sue the hell out of them.

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The reason ZJ isn't going to sue is because he knows he cheated. BTW, please don't respond because I won't be able to read what you write.

[ColdCaller]

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The reason ZJ isn't going to sue is because he knows he cheated. BTW, please don't respond because I won't be able to read what you write.

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Very classy. Be a man enough to see what he has to say in rebuttal, or shut the [censored] up.

[bocablkr]

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The PM request is to see if Party's actions have been at all widespead, because I know a lot of lawyers who would be interested in this case. If they took my money, I'd sue the hell out of them.



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If by some miracle you won, you would never collect. Party would refuse to pay and there is nothing you can do about getting your money from an offshore entity not bound by US laws.

[Yeti]

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By the way, if Party has found you "cheating" and confiscated funds from you, PM me. You will be glad you did.

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The funniest thing in an already hilarious thread.

[BassMasterK]

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they should take the roll, payout anything that would belong to those they cheated then freeroll the rest of the roll to the entire site.

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An interesting idea, and it would make for exciting freerolls (could you picture the titles "CHEATER FREEROLL"?, lol), but in all fairness to people who can't be online when one of the freerolls goes down, they should probably just split the money out amongst all cash players. This would be pennies per account but it would be the right thing to do. I agree the money belongs to the players, not Party. But I also think what ElD said a long ways back has merit. It was something to the effect of hoping that Party takes the money to invest in better cheater detection software/people so that they can bust more cheaters.