ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[El Diablo]

curtains: statements like "ZJ's life is ruined" are ridiculous. Kid is living on easy street. See this post: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...c=1#Post4883879

Lee: I am very disappointed that you do not have a policy to confiscate all funds when you find someone cheating on your site. To think that someone who is willing to cheat in one way is not cheating in other ways (with friends, etc.) is naive. Just because your systems are unable to detect those things does not mean it isn't happening - this is a perfect example of someone not getting caught by your systems. So, given that he cheated without being detected by you, it's quite likely you are still unable to detect all the ways he's cheated. It is very disappointing to not see Stars impose punitive measures on cheaters. I do not like the idea that I can now go cheat/collude on Stars and the only penalty will be that you take back what you can definitively prove that I won by cheating. I am honestly shocked that you did not impose any punitive measures on ZJ. If I were in your spot, I would have confiscated all funds, returned what could be identified to those harmed, and have a freeroll or some other bonus with the rest.

Consider this. Policy 1 - if you cheat, your account will be closed and you can cash out nothing. Policy 2 - if you cheat, we'll figure out how much we think you won directly from cheating, and you can cash out the rest. I agree w/ what many of you have said. Looks like Stars is definitely the +EV place to do your cheating. Lee, I have been a big fan of yours and Stars for a long time. I'm very disappointed in Stars' attitude on this matter, just as I was disappointed in your attitude in the softplaying thread in HNL: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 . I raised a couple of points there that you have yet to respond to. I'm not sure if you truly believe these positions are the best for maintaining the integrity of the game, if you just don't want to admit that the Stars policies have allowed for a lot of systematic shady goings on, or if you just don't want to alienate a lot of your high-volume, high-revenue players who aren't willing to play 100% straight up. I hope you'll reconsider and think about taking a stance more like "Cheating in any form is not tolerated at Stars, and violators will be punished in the harshest possible manner."

Triumph: If David (or anyone else) cheated at Magic, that greatly increases the chances that they cheat at poker as well.

teddy: Excellent explanation of why the Stars response does not adequately take into account the gravity or entirety of this situation.

[El Diablo]

Bolivia,

While I don't necessarily have a problem with someone taking over in a tournament, let me toss out these two considerations:

Live tournament: You are called away for some emergency. What happens? You can't have a friend take over your chips. For as long as you're gone, you're blinded away.

Online cash game: Your internet goes out at a no DP table. You lose the hand, lose the money. That's part of the cost of doing business on the Internet.

Taking into account that both of those things happen all the time, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for online sites to have unambiguous rules that say that one individual has to play a tournament, and if for some reason he is unable to continue, he forfeits.

[El Diablo]

Lee,

Like Dean, I just recently put money into Stars and was planning to put in a lot more. This was specifically to concentrate all of my WSOP (and probalby other) satellite play there and also try out the 10/20NL game since you finally eliminated the rebuy trick.

Given your stances regarding both the ring-game softplaying and the lack of punitive measures against cheaters, I am hesitant to play at Stars.

I would like to give you my support, and will do so wholeheartedly if you come out with a more definitive statement about not tolerating any form of cheating at Stars and taking the harshest measures possible to punish these cheaters.

Until that point, I too will be spending more time at Party.

[Piers]

[ QUOTE ]
So...not only was it pretty dumb to play on 6 accounts at once like that...it was also pretty dumb to have THAT much money in all those accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

It was also pretty dumb to play six accounts on one computer. It has to be trivial for party to detect this. However having six telephone lines and six IP addresses would mean admitting to himself that he was really cheating. Most criminals need to convince themselves somehow that what they are doing is not really wrong.

ZeeJustin comes across as a naive twit with highly compromised morals.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]

curtains: statements like "ZJ's life is ruined" are ridiculous. Kid is living on easy street. See this post: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=1#Post4883879

[/ QUOTE ]

Look closer at my post, I never once said that ZJ's life is ruined.

[LozColbert]

You created a false paradigm, and thus your argument fails.

Do you see why? I'll let others elaborate.

[LozColbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggested this in another thread at the Zoo, but the more I think about it the more I like it (flame away). There's a bigger chance than somebody from the sites reads it here, so here it goes:


I think sites should use confiscated money to buy space in all major poker magazines; Card Player, Poker Europe, etc... and every 2 weeks, once a month or whatever is dictated by how many online cheaters there are come public with a list of cheaters. Handles, real names, amounts confiscated, which countries they come from and how they where cheating and caught.

That would really be something that would help the poker community, both online and live.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

[LozColbert]

[ QUOTE ]

Lee: I am very disappointed that you do not have a policy to confiscate all funds when you find someone cheating on your site. To think that someone who is willing to cheat in one way is not cheating in other ways (with friends, etc.) is naive. Just because your systems are unable to detect those things does not mean it isn't happening - this is a perfect example of someone not getting caught by your systems. So, given that he cheated without being detected by you, it's quite likely you are still unable to detect all the ways he's cheated. It is very disappointing to not see Stars impose punitive measures on cheaters. I do not like the idea that I can now go cheat/collude on Stars and the only penalty will be that you take back what you can definitively prove that I won by cheating. I am honestly shocked that you did not impose any punitive measures on ZJ. If I were in your spot, I would have confiscated all funds, returned what could be identified to those harmed, and have a freeroll or some other bonus with the rest.

Consider this. Policy 1 - if you cheat, your account will be closed and you can cash out nothing. Policy 2 - if you cheat, we'll figure out how much we think you won directly from cheating, and you can cash out the rest. I agree w/ what many of you have said. Looks like Stars is definitely the +EV place to do your cheating. Lee, I have been a big fan of yours and Stars for a long time. I'm very disappointed in Stars' attitude on this matter, just as I was disappointed in your attitude in the softplaying thread in HNL: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1 . I raised a couple of points there that you have yet to respond to. I'm not sure if you truly believe these positions are the best for maintaining the integrity of the game, if you just don't want to admit that the Stars policies have allowed for a lot of systematic shady goings on, or if you just don't want to alienate a lot of your high-volume, high-revenue players who aren't willing to play 100% straight up. I hope you'll reconsider and think about taking a stance more like "Cheating in any form is not tolerated at Stars, and violators will be punished in the harshest possible manner."


[/ QUOTE ] It's long, but it should be read again by Lee and PokerStars. It's really sad that Lee doesn't get it.

[KaneKungFu123]

Can someone smart please start the offical boycott poker stars thread.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone smart please start the offical boycott poker stars thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of doing it but figure it will have little/no effect. I will, however, be boycotting them. Startling incompetence, not like they can't afford to hire staff with a combined count of 10+ brain cells either.