ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[FakeKramer]

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The amount of money that we ascribed to illicit play was relatively small (less than $5K), and we confiscated that entire amount. We permitted him to cash out the balance over that.


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Lee,

this is a very bad policy. Let me explain why. It does not provide a disincentive to cheat. Someone can cheat like Justin did, and they know that even if they get caught they will only lose the amount the stole. If they don't get caught then their theft is profitable. Hence, it is impossible for them to lose by cheating. Furthermore, unless you can 100% guarantee catching all cheaters, then cheating is +EV under your system.

Disappointed,

Dean

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[MadTiger]

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OK HERES THE NEXT QUESTION. ZJ CLAIMS HE DUPED PARTY BY CLICKING ON CLIENT TO OPEN MULTIPLE PARTY'S. SO HOWD HE DO IT ON POKER STARS? I BET MORE PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED. THIS IS PROBABLY BIGGER THAN ZJ, I BET THERE WAS A RING OF THESE HIGH LIMIT PLAYERS DOING IT.

LEE JONES HOWD DID HE CHEAT WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO KNOW?

AND YES IM CONVICED POKERSITES DONT CARE ABOUT CHEATING IF ITS GOING ON AT THE HIGHEST LIMITS ON THE BIG TWO.

LOOKS LIKE A SHOULDA OF LEARNED HOW TO CHEAT INSTEAD OF PLAY POKER LLOLHAHAHSHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

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It does seem to indicate that there are others. I am positive the PokerStars narcs are checking accounts transferred to, heads-up games, etc.

[curtains]

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Okay I made a controversial post in the Philosophy/Science/Math section started by microbet. The main idea of the post is that I feel like the overall viciousness being shown towards ZJ was too much. I believe his statement was terrible and I'm not at all surprised that people are behaving in the way that they are after reading that.

However those who say "He has stolen tons of money from me doing this?", he has not really stolen very much money from you in all liklihood. Other practices that are more commonly accepted, even at the top levels, may have "potentially" cost you more in certain situations.

Again I agree that what he did is illegal and unethical and I think that everyone who does it should stop. However I also feel there are other very common practices that many people could make a huge case for being just as illegal. I also feel that many of the attackers in this thread have engaged in said activity.

My main concern I suppose is those people who seem so excited and joyful about ZJ's demise and want to go out of their way to basicaly ruin his life. It seems so hard for me to imagine people who can live in such a way where the suffering of a person, even someone you don't like that much, can make you so so happy. I'm not talking about the revelation of the actual cheating and the extra security that the sites are taking, I'm talking about those people who seem to be generally gleeful that this has happened specifically to this one person. (I noticed this same affect in the famous grandma thread as well). There are really very few actions tha would inspire me to wish such hatred ill will towards a person. Let's just say those actions would have to be a great deal more serious than this. Anyway everyone is welcome to feel how they want to feel about other people, I just think its a bit sad at how celebratory others can get at someones failure.

I know I'm going to get flamed bigtime for this, but I know that much much more severe cheating goes on in the poker world. I don't know who the culprits are, but we all know its happening somewhere.


Here is the thread I referred to earlier:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

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No flames deserved man, but I would like to point out a few things.

Yes, there are probably worse cheaters out there.

I am not 'gleeful' over anyone being caught cheating because I wish people didn't cheat. However, I am 'grateful' that they are caught when they are. It is only fair to those of us who are honest.

What I am not sure you get is that you seem to think that his cheating did not affect many people in a big way. The sheer numbers he affected...that may be true. And to some young internet greats...the amount that people lost out on because of his cheating may not be a big deal. But to the honest guy who plays in his spare time and either scraped together a seat for a big tourney or won a sattelite or super...one place difference in the end of these tourneys is possibly tens of thousands of dollars. Tens of thousands of dollars is a big deal to a large percentage of the world populace. What he did was inexcusable regardless of who is doing worse. Those who are doing worse are also inexcusable and I hope they are caught as well.

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I agree that what was done was inexcusable and I agree with basically everything else you said in your thread. My comments weren't directed towards you or others who behave the same way as you in this thread.

People deserve to be and should be expected to be very upset about this incident and about the fact that this is not an isolated incident and that it happens quite frequently. People should also be happy that Poker Sites are stepping up and taking the integrity of the game very seriously.

However I don't believe that what I posted said anything other than the above.

[Windchasers]

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Basically your premise is there is no need to research anything. If somebody is caught (or maybe you will go as far as somebody is merely suspected) in any form of cheating the site should confiscate all money that is held there. I am sure any site would love just to do this, but I doubt that it's legal.

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As best as I understand it, this is specified in the TOC. If you cheat, PP has a right to everything in your account. Thus, it's legal. FWIW, I agree that's what they should do, too.

[Karakaz]

This topic is ZJ related, however O/T enough to warrant its own topic;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...e=0#Post4883537

[curtains]

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Maybe it's just because I'm an SnG player, but what mostly bothered me was that ZJ was able to play (not multi-account, just play) in SnGs under more than one name within a span of 6 months. As someone who follows the once-every-6-months name-change rule and has to deal with regulars coming to recognize his nick, I really resent the unfair advantage that the increased anonymity gave him.

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Yeah....I still don't believe its an advantage to be anonymous in SnGs, but it's nice to have the option.

[MadTiger]

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Take your vendetta against me elsewhere. Those served no purpose and made an already hard to read thread even harder to read.
~Justin

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2nded, 3rded, 4thed, 5thed, and, you guessed it,

6thed!!!!!

Exactly. Good job Jurollo!

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[sirio11]

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Sirio, what exactly do you do when ur internet goes out and you are in a tournament? Do you just concede the event and accept the loss of money? I'm wondering what people feel is acceptable in this situation. I know i've had people take over for me in the past (while extremely rare), and I've taken over for others before. Maybe this is wrong. I'm getting the impression you feel it is. Yes/No?

-ed

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The last time it happened to me, it was at a final table. I called a friend and I stayed in the phone while driving toward his home. But I'm lucky to have friends who play low stakes poker, so they don't play the tournaments I play.
Since then I bought a verizon card; just in case ($60 a month).
FWIW I don't have a problem with people taking over a friend given certain circumstances. But this would be very easy for a site to monitor; because one occurrence every once in a big while it's pretty different from this happening in all or almost all the tournaments you play.

[mbpoker]

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Where would you rather cheat?

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After all this mess, I woudn't cheat on either. But then I don't cheat. We should ask ZeeJustin.

[Tuco]

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People should also be happy that Poker Sites are stepping up and taking the integrity of the game very seriously.

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Actually, "stepping up" now and taking action because it became an issue doesn't make me happy. The fact that they KNEW it was going on and did nothing because it wasn't ni their immediate interest to do so is the most troubling aspect of this whole fiasco.

How do I know they care about collusion? Because they say they do? That's not good enough any more. Poker sites merely saying that they protect players from cheating now doesnt wash with me. I want transparency. Explain to me step by step what you are doing to stop all of this.

Tuco.