ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[mbpoker]

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There's no disincentive to cheat on Stars if this is the way they're handeling it.

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Wrong. There is plenty of disincentive. You have two horses in a big tourney. What for? You want to make a big hit. But you will be caught - lose your win and will be banned from the site. Before you make this big hit you probably tried it 10 times, so you lost your 20 buy-ins in the process too.

Another example - police catches a small cheat who stole some item from the department store. Would they confiscate his his house and his bank account? Maybe in Saud Arabia.

Also Party never said that they confiscated more than they discovered was stolen by cheating.

[BassMasterK]

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Okay I made a controversial post in the Philosophy/Science/Math section started by microbet. The main idea of the post is that I feel like the overall viciousness being shown towards ZJ was too much. I believe his statement was terrible and I'm not at all surprised that people are behaving in the way that they are after reading that.

However those who say "He has stolen tons of money from me doing this?", he has not really stolen very much money from you in all liklihood. Other practices that are more commonly accepted, even at the top levels, may have "potentially" cost you more in certain situations.

Again I agree that what he did is illegal and unethical and I think that everyone who does it should stop. However I also feel there are other very common practices that many people could make a huge case for being just as illegal. I also feel that many of the attackers in this thread have engaged in said activity.

My main concern I suppose is those people who seem so excited and joyful about ZJ's demise and want to go out of their way to basicaly ruin his life. It seems so hard for me to imagine people who can live in such a way where the suffering of a person, even someone you don't like that much, can make you so so happy. I'm not talking about the revelation of the actual cheating and the extra security that the sites are taking, I'm talking about those people who seem to be generally gleeful that this has happened specifically to this one person. (I noticed this same affect in the famous grandma thread as well). There are really very few actions tha would inspire me to wish such hatred ill will towards a person. Let's just say those actions would have to be a great deal more serious than this. Anyway everyone is welcome to feel how they want to feel about other people, I just think its a bit sad at how celebratory others can get at someones failure.

I know I'm going to get flamed bigtime for this, but I know that much much more severe cheating goes on in the poker world. I don't know who the culprits are, but we all know its happening somewhere.


Here is the thread I referred to earlier:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

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No flames deserved man, but I would like to point out a few things.

Yes, there are probably worse cheaters out there.

I am not 'gleeful' over anyone being caught cheating because I wish people didn't cheat. However, I am 'grateful' that they are caught when they are. It is only fair to those of us who are honest.

What I am not sure you get is that you seem to think that his cheating did not affect many people in a big way. The sheer numbers he affected...that may be true. And to some young internet greats...the amount that people lost out on because of his cheating may not be a big deal. But to the honest guy who plays in his spare time and either scraped together a seat for a big tourney or won a sattelite or super...one place difference in the end of these tourneys is possibly tens of thousands of dollars. Tens of thousands of dollars is a big deal to a large percentage of the world populace. What he did was inexcusable regardless of who is doing worse. Those who are doing worse are also inexcusable and I hope they are caught as well.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

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more on david williams cheating at magic plz. how the hell do you cheat at magic.

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it doesnt seem that hard...

what about just hiding cards then just before the game starts (after decks have been checked) slipping your other cards in to replace others. isnt there a rule of only 4 of any 1 card in the deck?

i dunno never really played it but it seems logical....

[shaniac]

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Also Party never said that they confiscated more than they discovered was stolen by cheating.

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Good post, and I think it might come down to Party's more-liberal definition of what was stolen by cheating. Considering that's what ZJ was saying up in his post, I assume ZJ aproves of Stars resolution.

[BluffTHIS!]

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Also Party never said that they confiscated more than they discovered was stolen by cheating.

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Check out the JJProd thread. 40K over and above cheated winnings confiscated. And that was the right action for deterrent purposes.

[EliotSpitzer]

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There's no disincentive to cheat on Stars if this is the way they're handeling it.



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Wrong. There is plenty of disincentive. You have two horses in a big tourney. What for? You want to make a big hit. But you will be caught - lose your win and will be banned from the site. Before you make this big hit you probably tried it 10 times, so you lost your 20 buy-ins in the process too.

Another example - police catches a small cheat who stole some item from the department store. Would they confiscate his his house and his bank account? Maybe in Saud Arabia.

Also Party never said that they confiscated more than they discovered was stolen by cheating.

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Party confiscated all funds in all of ZJ's accounts:

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A decision has been made, in consultation with the Poker Room Manager, Legal and Management, to close these accounts permanently and confiscate all funds.

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They also confiscated all of JJ's funds. I think it's safe to assume that Party will confiscate all funds in a cheater's accounts.

[Nottom]

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more on david williams cheating at magic plz. how the hell do you cheat at magic.

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it doesnt seem that hard...

what about just hiding cards then just before the game starts (after decks have been checked) slipping your other cards in to replace others. isnt there a rule of only 4 of any 1 card in the deck?

i dunno never really played it but it seems logical....

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That sort of thing is way to easy for someone to spot, most people basicalyl know what is supposed to be in your deck when you are playing magic at a high level so if they noticed something out of place they would likely call for a deck check.

Anyway If I remember correctly David Williams cheating incident involved (without going into specifics) a deck that involved a lot of shuffling and 4 cards that he wanted to draw that just happened to be slightly bent. Basically he could stack his deck really easy.

[KotOD]

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I'm laying 4:1 that it's "Grindblog" from blogspot.com . . . don't remember his name on here. I read the same blogs you did.

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Oooooooh, I forgot about him!

[betadecay]

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It does not provide a disincentive to cheat. Someone can cheat like Justin did, and they know that even if they get caught they will only lose the amount the stole. If they don't get caught then their theft is profitable. Hence, it is impossible for them to lose by cheating.

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That's not entirely correct. He's not just losing the winnings from the times that he cheated; he is losing the money (and time) he invested in them as well.

For example if a perfectly average player spends $3000 in tournament entry fees, he figures to end up with about $3000 (breakeven) when he is done. If he cheats, then he thinks he can end up with $4500... but if he gets caught, he ends up with $0. In that sense he is risking losing $3000 to possibly win $1500. The only way that cheating is risk-free is if he figures to have exactly 0 ROI when not cheating.

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This is also incorrect. He's not loosing his winnings, they aren't his since he cheated them. All he is losing is his time and his buy in. That is so lame stars.

[betadecay]

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more on david williams cheating at magic plz. how the hell do you cheat at magic.

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I played in the late nineties and there is a lot of cheating going on. You can palm cards to overdraw, you can misrepresent info(life, card effects, mana, a lot of people do not double check and it's amazing what people get away with) to unassuming nerds who don't know people are evil. The most obvious and rampant is deck stacking(while sideboarding you re set the deck to even ratios of land and cards prior to reshuffling, this allows you to keep as little land as possible)