Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people."

[DrewDevil]

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I understand the argument fine. Tim Hardaway (and others) has the right to feel uncomfortable showering with gay men, I never said he didn't. What I'm saying is that his unease stems from his bigotry and dislike of gay people far more than it stems from a reality of a random gay man trying to hit on him.

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So anyone who's uncomfortable showering with gay men is a bigot? That's asinine.

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It's really not though. Bigot is a harsh word, prejudiced is probably better. On some level I would be aware and I suppose uncomfortable at first possibly, that makes me a little bit prejudiced. It's not a big deal, to pretend predjudice isn't rampant in this country is ignoring everything.

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Is a woman who doesn't want to shower with a man also prejudiced? Why or why not?

[kidcolin]

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It's really not though. Bigot is a harsh word, prejudiced is probably better.

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No.. he's right. it's asinine. Being uncomfortable doesn't equate to being prejudiced, or a bigot. The world isn't that easy.

[Aloysius]

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It's really not though. Bigot is a harsh word, prejudiced is probably better.

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No.. he's right. it's asinine. Being uncomfortable doesn't equate to being prejudiced, or a bigot. The world isn't that easy.

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Important point. This isn't a race issue - there's a shift in the traditional sexual dynamic players are comfortable with. You know, the one where dudes have no desire to bang them.

Again - discomfort is not equal to being a bigot. You're going to be judged by your actions also, not how you're thinking / feeling about it. That's critical.

If people want to get worked up about a mindset, that's ludicrous - it takes time / education / exposure to get people to change the way they think and feel about things.

-Al

[MoreWineII]

You guys aren't understanding. Comparing whether a man wants to shower with a woman to whether a man wants to shower with another gay man is a really terrible comparsion.

We're talking about orientation here, not gender.

A man who will shower with other men but will not shower with another gay man is prejudiced, yes.

A man who will shower with other men but will not shower with a woman is not prejudiced, no. If he will not shower with any woman, anywhere, simply because she is a woman, then yes he is prejudiced against women.

Much like if a man refuses to eat dinner with a black man simply because he is black is different than a man who refuses to eat dinner with a woman because he isn't interested in her.

[kidcolin]

so you're completely taking sex out of the equation. So if that's the case, what's my primary motive for not wanting to shower with a woman? I'm being honest here.

fwiw, I wouldn't be comfortable showering with women. With gay guys, for some reason I don't think it'd be a big deal. Only if someone was blatantly hitting on me, but that's really no different than the discomfort I feel when an ugly chick hits on me.

It's complicated, I think, and to broad stroke the issue and say someone's prejudiced just because they're uncomfortable being in naked company with a gay man is unreasonable.

[Colt McCoy]

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You guys aren't understanding. Comparing whether a man wants to shower with a woman to whether a man wants to shower with another gay man is a really terrible comparsion.

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Agreed.

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Much like if a man refuses to eat dinner with a black man simply because he is black is different than a man who refuses to eat dinner with a woman because he isn't interested in her.

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So you follow it up with an even worse comparison.

[Colt McCoy]

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I wouldn't be comfortable showering with women. With gay guys, for some reason I don't think it'd be a big deal. Only if someone was blatantly hitting on me, but that's really no different than the discomfort I feel when an ugly chick hits on me.

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Well now you've just implied you'd sleep with the gay guy if you were drunk enough! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[kidcolin]

standard

[dknightx]

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To those of you arguing that a gay man showering with straight men = a man showering with a group of women...would you feel uncomfortable if an attractive female was showering with a group of men and was checking you out?

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um why would you care? you are ATTRACTED to the woman. I would feel VERY uncomfortable if a 400lb 80year old woman was showering with a group of men and checking me out.

The point is this, it is perfectly NORMAL for you to feel uncomfortable taking a shower with people who are attracted to you, but not vice versa.

[DesertCat]

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Turn the situation around. Say you have a 100% lesbian woman. She should shower with heterosexual men and not feel self conscious at all? I mean, she's not interested in them, so no big deal right? Alot if not most lesbian women would be VERY uncomfortable in this situation.

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Actually, a better analogy would be a lesbian showering with other women. Do you think you'd have the same level of angst?

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I don't think this is a good analogy for one reason, men are much more likely to be aggressive about their sexual desires. While there are aggressive woman out there, in our society it's primarily the male who's constantly trying to "pollinate new flowers". And if you want to debate this, then tell me what percentages of rapes in America are committed by men, vs. woman.

I think that's the reason why it seems natural to you that woman wouldn't mind showering with a lesbian. But it's also the reason why some men would feel uncomfortable showering with a gay man, or a lesbian would feel uncomfortable showering with hetero males.