Playing Trips Passively

[Requin]

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This line would make more sense with AT, because then you're probably behind the majority of Ax holdings UTG could have.

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Good point.

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Not really, you're going broke here anyways with AT.

[LearnedfromTV]

I wish UTG hadn't been so much of a pussy. If he raises 3x preflop and bets 2/3rds pot on turn, my line looks a little better.

[seke2]

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So yeah, I'm gonna raise the turn. I think I've gotten as much as I can get out of 22-66, 88-QQ, and now want to isolate against any Ax/Kx hand that wants to keep going.

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Does QQ call a river bet? It definitely folds to a turn raise.

In retrospect, my problem with the flop check is that a turn raise is transparent.

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It's definitely transparent, but I think you have to define your hand here. You aren't folding at any point on this hand, so you define your hand. If people are ahead of you, you're going to stack them unless you fill up on the river. If they're behind you, they probably aren't betting again and probably wouldn't even call a river bet unless they have a worse ace or possibly a king.

I don't think QQ calls a river bet unless the player totally sucks.

[LearnedfromTV]

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This line would make more sense with AT, because then you're probably behind the majority of Ax holdings UTG could have.

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Good point.

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Not really, you're going broke here anyways with AT.

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If I have AT, underrepresenting my hand is good, b/c if I rep an A strongly I'm repping a range where my hand is at the weak end. I have to worry even more about getting the max from non-A hands. With AQ that's not quite the case. That's his point.

[LearnedfromTV]

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It's definitely transparent, but I think you have to define your hand here. You aren't folding at any point on this hand, so you define your hand.

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I don't understand this. If I'm not folding, why do I want them to know I have an A? Ideally I would get a lot of money in a way that makes a bunch of weaker hands think they're good, no?

[Requin]

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If I have AT, underrepresenting my hand is good, b/c if I rep an A strongly I'm repping a range where my hand is at the weak end. I have to worry even more about getting the max from non-A hands. With AQ that's not quite the case.

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This makes no sense to me. Why would we have to worry 'even more' about maxing versus weaker aces? If he has AJ/AT the money goes in, so that shouldn't really factor into our decision on whether or not to bet the flop. Maximize versus the hands we beat is what we need to do.

[seke2]

Because I'm pretty sure any ace (and many kings) will come along when you raise anyway. They're going to pay you off regardless, so build the pot on the turn so you can get paid off better on the river. Weaker hands that would actually call a river bet unimproved will call a turn raise too.

I just think that if you're going to win this hand, you want to build the pot now, let weaker aces pay you off, and resign yourself to the fact that the guy with QQ is done putting money in the pot when he sees 2 people calling a turn bet on a board with AAK.

[Sam T.]

I agree that betting the flop is really important, mostly for the reasons you've cited. If you wait until later in the hand to start betting and raising, you might as well play your cards face-up. No hand raises the turn or river that isn't trip aces or better.

If you bet the flop it gets more money into the pot, and makes your hand at least a little less transparent. Is he betting an ace? Or stealing the pot from in position with 99?

If you're going to check a street, I'd rather bet the flop, and then check behind the turn if it's checked to you. You took your shot, and now you're shutting it down. Depending on the villains, it may induce a bluff on the river.

[LearnedfromTV]

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If I have AT, underrepresenting my hand is good, b/c if I rep an A strongly I'm repping a range where my hand is at the weak end. I have to worry even more about getting the max from non-A hands. With AQ that's not quite the case.

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This makes no sense to me. Why would we have to worry 'even more' about maxing versus weaker aces? If he has AJ/AT the money goes in, so that shouldn't really factor into our decision on whether or not to bet the flop. Maximize versus the hands we beat is what we need to do.

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Do you seriously not see the difference between having AQ and AT?

If you take a line that says "OMG I have an ACE!" with AT you're in bad shape most of the time when money goes in. If you take a line leaves room for doubt you have a better chance of getting more from lower pairs and lower aces.

[Requin]

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If I have AT, underrepresenting my hand is good, b/c if I rep an A strongly I'm repping a range where my hand is at the weak end. I have to worry even more about getting the max from non-A hands. With AQ that's not quite the case.

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This makes no sense to me. Why would we have to worry 'even more' about maxing versus weaker aces? If he has AJ/AT the money goes in, so that shouldn't really factor into our decision on whether or not to bet the flop. Maximize versus the hands we beat is what we need to do.

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Do you seriously not see the difference between having AQ and AT?

If you take a line that says "OMG I have an ACE!" with AT you're in bad shape most of the time when money goes in. If you take a line leaves room for doubt you have a better chance of getting more from lower pairs and lower aces.

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Stacks are shallow enough that this argument about being less transparent to make money off smaller aces and PPs should apply to BOTH AT and AQ. There is not much difference between the two in this hand, nor should there be a strategic difference in how you play them.