Did Mike M made a mistake with the Kings? (WSOP spoiler)

[jeffraider]

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Didn't Doyle say the day he lays down KK pre flop is the day he stops playing poker??

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He said that about AA.

[popesc]

That hand was just destined to double up Lazar. If Mike raises preflop, Lazar might push, and Mike probably would have called with his Kings.

If Mike just calls, Lazar bets out on the K high flop, Mike would probably push then and it would be tough for Lazar to lay down Aces w/ a backdoor flush draw to somebody who didn't raise preflop.

If things get to the turn, even if Mike puts Lazar on the flush, he's probably got the pot odds needed to call with his 10 full house/quad outs.

I personnally think Mike's play was an excellent use of his normally wreckless table image. It is likely TT-QQ or AQ-AK would have read Mike for a much worse hand and called. And if everyone did fold, he starts off winning a decent size pot with little risk and everybody expects he's just nuts.

If pushing preflop was a mistake, I propose it was a very small one.

[Disc_Golf]

I did notice the weak means strong tells from Lazar. He frowned and then said "I raise" in such a lazy, almost apologetic tone.

Not saying that means Mike is laying the hand down. It is much easier for us to notice tells when we are looking for the right ones. We know he has aces so we look for anything that gives that away.

If I was in Mike's seat, and I noticed all of those tells, I still would have called. I mean he could do that same thing with QQ. It is harder to put a weaker player on that hand. If that was someone that Mike knew a lot better, maybe folding would have been more of a possibility. However, I don't think anyone, anywere would have just open-folded there. He would have had to make a smaller raise, let Lazar push in, then weigh the pot odds. Then, MAYBE he could entertain the tought of getting off the hand.

[Toro]

A player like Matasow should be able to fold KK if he can make the right read? Why? Because Mike M. doesn't need big cards to accumulate chips. If you got game like that, it should be easier to let a big hand go.

[Disc_Golf]

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A player like Matasow should be able to fold KK if he can make the right read? Why? Because Mike M. doesn't need big cards to accumulate chips. If you got game like that, it should be easier to let a big hand go.

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Yes but the key part of your statement was "if he can make the right read." Which, in my opinion can be very difficult to do against a weaker player. Many weak players have slightly looser standards with what they can call an all-in with or push in with in those difficult situations. Many weak players will look at QQ as so good that they can't fold that preflop. If that is the case with Lazar, then how can Mike think that extreme strength must mean aces?

Just food for thought.

[TheBlueMonster]

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I did notice the weak means strong tells from Lazar. He frowned and then said "I raise" in such a lazy, almost apologetic tone.

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another fundamental mistake of TV poker viewers: the obvious tell. You have no information except a section in Caro's book and a 2 second tv clip. There is no way for you to determine what a tell is or isn't.

[TheBlueMonster]

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He could have likely just called and pushed with no ace... when the king flopped he can't help but think jackpot. I do think he could have played it better, but knowing the board, the outcome would have probably been the same.

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no no no....
After a raise and reraise, you don't smooth call with Kings! This isn't early in an online tourny where people can't get off top pair. THis is the final table of the World Series where chip accumulation is critical. Mike smooth calls and Dannenmen calls also. With KK you isolate, you don't try to get cute.

[Fallen Hero]

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Matusow also was playing way too aggressively for the beginning of a final table

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he was winning small pots, that's how you get chips without cards. It's not like he was risking his stack.

[Disc_Golf]

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I did notice the weak means strong tells from Lazar. He frowned and then said "I raise" in such a lazy, almost apologetic tone.

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another fundamental mistake of TV poker viewers: the obvious tell. You have no information except a section in Caro's book and a 2 second tv clip. There is no way for you to determine what a tell is or isn't.

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I don't understand what you are trying to say. Obviously, I am not trying to read Lazar to put him on a hand, because I see the aces. I see that he has aces and look for anything that gives off strength. What is wrong with that? I feel that it will allow me to improve upon my hand reading skills away from the table.

Yes, if I was at the table with Lazar, I would need to put those tells in context but not when I already know what he has. lol

[AaronO]

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no no no....
After a raise and reraise, you don't smooth call with Kings! This isn't early in an online tourny where people can't get off top pair. THis is the final table of the World Series where chip accumulation is critical. Mike smooth calls and Dannenmen calls also. With KK you isolate, you don't try to get cute.

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Thank you.