A hand - Page 2

HiatusOver · #11 03-04-2006, 05:43 PM

I would normally just call the turn here and usually call the river unless I picked up a strong reason to believe my hand is no good somewhere between my turn call and his river bet.

Were u going to value bet this river? Thats the main reason I could see why raising the turn would be better.

DpR · #12 03-04-2006, 07:34 PM

I think that if the guy is erratic/tricky/wierd enough to donk the river after the previous action with something worse then a mid-weak ace, then I think it is best to just call down rather than rasie the turn.

I make sure that I note the guys that like to donk most every street whenther they have a hand or not. Then I can be sure not to use a free s.d. play on them.

I can't be sure given the description whether or not you have a good river call here. IMO, a player that is just aggresive does not bet this river with a hand you beat. It needs to be one of those erratic players that make many 'out of tempo' bets.

Persoanlly, I would only take his line with an ace I was unsure of.

mc123 · #13 03-04-2006, 08:21 PM

given your description and the action you definently gotta cal this river.

A lot of players like to check-call and donk the turn with an ace when they aren't closing the action preflop and out of position.

Given your description of the villain I can see him playing an ace this way but I can also see him playing a JQh,QK, or even TJh the same way.

Call the turn and re-evaluate on the river but most likely I'm showdown-bound in this spot and cheaply as possible.

True · #14 03-04-2006, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the river. I assume villian has a mid Ace.

On the flop, he doesn't checkraise, since he views you as tight and that you will fold the turn with a medium pocket pair.

He also doesn't want to checkraise the turn because you will fold for the same reasons, and might even check behind. So he donk bets the turn, hoping you will call down. When you raise, he puts you on either KK or QQ or AK. If you have QQ or KK, you are raising for a free showdown of course, but he is not going to threebet still fearing AK, also if he does three bet, you will fold a worse hand.

On the river its obviously he is bet/folding, as he assumes you will make a crying call, and even possibly just call with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are we folding if our opponent is obviously bet/folding....

Very contradictory...
True

James282 · #15 03-04-2006, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he has a hand such as QhJh or something often enough that you need to call the river, given that he probably views you as tight enough to fold some non ace pairs. His line just doesn't _feel_ like the way he should plausibly play an ace.

I assume you were going to check behind on the river?

I'm pretty sure I raise the turn too because I generally take the "pauses, ponders, bets" thing live as meaning he doesn't like his hand that much, but doesn't know what to do with it.

I like the post, glad to see you outside of Sports/OOT/NVG again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this analysis a lot.
-James

epi316 · #16 03-04-2006, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the river its obviously he is bet/folding, as he assumes you will make a crying call, and even possibly just call with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true then why are we folding instead of raising?

Jeff W · #17 03-04-2006, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I raise the turn too because I generally take the "pauses, ponders, bets" thing live as meaning he doesn't like his hand that much, but doesn't know what to do with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anything about live play. In an online game, I'd calldown after the turn bet.

Paluka · #18 03-05-2006, 12:05 AM

I was going to respond to this, but Clarkmeister has me on ignore.

Westley878 · #19 03-05-2006, 12:06 AM

HI Clarkmeister,

It looks like you posted this hand becuz you were wondering if there is a better line to take in this spot with TT against this type of opponent.

Heres a quote from TOP, page 272, that may apply here.

11. "Against an opponent who plays too loose on early rounds and too aggressively later on you should play solid cards, but play them meekly. Make this player think he can run over you."

Since the villain seems to fit this decription, If I were to apply this concept, I would just call his 3 bet preflop, and on this board, I would just call down. What do you think of the merits of this strategy against this particular opponent. I personally like this line against this villain.

James282 · #20 03-05-2006, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
HI Clarkmeister,

It looks like you posted this hand becuz you were wondering if there is a better line to take in this spot with TT against this type of opponent.

Heres a quote from TOP, page 272, that may apply here.

11. "Against an opponent who plays too loose on early rounds and too aggressively later on you should play solid cards, but play them meekly. Make this player think he can run over you."

Since the villain seems to fit this decription, If I were to apply this concept, I would just call his 3 bet preflop, and on this board, I would just call down. What do you think of the merits of this strategy against this particular opponent. I personally like this line against this villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Capping preflop is totally mandatory if his 3 betting range includes hands you dominate, and he will continue to play in a bizarre way(see this hand) postflop.
-James