A Point About The Less Mainstream Religions

[tpir]

Cliff notes: people in cults are more credulous on average than people who are casually religious.

[foal]

This is silly. Mormonism is mainstream <u>in certain parts of the country</u>. There is absolutely no reason to make a big distinction between it and other Christian sects by saying things like "it's less mainstream, therefore it's a cult, therefore people who practice it are nuttier on average, because why else would they join a cult?" The simple fact is that people have a high propensity to believe what the community they were raised in believes. I give kudos to anyone who manages to break out of that mold, but as far as the candidates go I don't see that any of them have done that.

[tpir]

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This is silly. Mormonism is mainstream <u>in certain parts of the country</u>.

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Branch Davidians were mainstream inside of the compound, what is your point?


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There is absolutely no reason to make a big distinction between it and other Christian sects

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Actually there are lots of reasons to do just this. IWLOE.


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by saying things like "it's less mainstream, therefore it's a cult, therefore people who practice it are nuttier on average, because why else would they join a cult?"

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Thankfully I didn't say any of this.


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The simple fact is that people have a high propensity to believe what the community they were raised in believes

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Agreed! The fact that something becomes mainstream in a community doesn't stop it from being cult-ish to the rest of us.


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I give kudos to anyone who manages to break out of that mold, but as far as the candidates go I don't see that any of them have done that.

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Huh? What candidates?

[CORed]

"Calvinist" would include Prespbyterian, Congregationalist, Dutch Reformed and several other common Protestant denominations. I think it's rather strange to include them in the "non-mainstream" category. For that matter, if you live in Utah, Mormonism is mainstream, and a lot of members of the Mormon church in Utah don't take it all that seriously.

I think in general, converts are often more passionate in their beliefs than those raised in a religion, whether the religion is "mainstream" or not. After all a convert has made a conscious choice to adhere to a faith, as opposed to not going against his upbringing.

[foal]

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This is silly. Mormonism is mainstream <u>in certain parts of the country</u>.

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Branch Davidians were mainstream inside of the compound, what is your point?

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My point has been made:
"The simple fact is that people have a high propensity to believe what the community they were raised in believes."


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There is absolutely no reason to make a big distinction between it and other Christian sects

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Actually there are lots of reasons to do just this. IWLOE.

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IWLOE?


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by saying things like "it's less mainstream, therefore it's a cult, therefore people who practice it are nuttier on average, because why else would they join a cult?"

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Thankfully I didn't say any of this.

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What is your reasoning then?


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The simple fact is that people have a high propensity to believe what the community they were raised in believes

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Agreed! The fact that something becomes mainstream in a community doesn't stop it from being cult-ish to the rest of us.

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Yes. Only on an intuitive level, though. It shouldn't say anything about the rationality or intelligence of those coming out of such communities as opposed to those coming out of communities practicing religions that are mainstream to the country as a whole.


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I give kudos to anyone who manages to break out of that mold, but as far as the candidates go I don't see that any of them have done that.

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Huh? What candidates?

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There was another thread in which someone was attacking Romney for being a Mormon. I confused the two. My bad.

[tpir]

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My point has been made:
"The simple fact is that people have a high propensity to believe what the community they were raised in believes."

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Agreed as long as we don't limit this to religion.


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IWLOE?

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I Will Let Others Elaborate. DUCY?


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What is your reasoning then?

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This is the only statement I was making: Mormonism and Scientology are closer to being a cult than mainstream Christianity is. Therefore, it would make sense that the more devout members probably have less of the doubts that DS was referring to, being the type of person more susceptible to cults in the first place.

My reasoning for placing these groups along the cult-religion line is based on my understanding of each group's beliefs. Pretty arbitrary though since it could be argued that Christianity was a cult too and only became a religion because of time and geography.


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It shouldn't say anything about the rationality or intelligence of those coming out of such communities as opposed to those coming out of communities practicing religions that are mainstream to the country as a whole.

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Maybe. The farther away from normal the beliefs become, the more chances there are for a reasonable person to say "wtf" and roll out. No way to bet on it now, but surely your average Koresh follower was way more irrational/unintelligent than your average American protestant.


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There was another thread in which someone was attacking Romney for being a Mormon. I confused the two. My bad.

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His being Mormon does not explicitly makes him a worse candidate. That being said, I think there are a fair number of questions he should be expected to answer about his faith if he is seeking the highest office in the world. I am sure this was all covered in other threads and I don't feel like making an already maddening forum even more maddening by making it political too.

[foal]

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This is the only statement I was making: Mormonism and Scientology are closer to being a cult than mainstream Christianity is. Therefore, it would make sense that the more devout members probably have less of the doubts that DS was referring to, being the type of person more susceptible to cults in the first place.

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So are you saying that if I grew up in a Mormon area and became a Mormon, this requires me to be "more susceptible to cults" than if I grew up in a protestant area and became a protestant? If so then I don't see why. And why do you assume that they must have less doubts about their religion?

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The farther away from normal the beliefs become, the more chances there are for a reasonable person to say "wtf" and roll out.

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Maybe, but Mormonism is large enough and close enough to "normal Christianity" that I don't see this applying. If you're a Mormon and you look at all the different religions and sects stemming from Abraham, I don't think your own religion stands out as being abnormal. Also if you continue to live in Mormon heavy communities your beliefs would still not be "far away from normal".

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There was another thread in which someone was attacking Romney for being a Mormon. I confused the two. My bad.

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His being Mormon does not explicitly makes him a worse candidate. That being said, I think there are a fair number of questions he should be expected to answer about his faith if he is seeking the highest office in the world.

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I can't say I agree, but like you said that's a different topic.

[kurto]

there are various definitions of the word "cult." According to dictionary.com, the 1st definition:
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1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

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refers to all religions.

The other common usage:
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A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.


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This is sort of meaningless because ALL religions think all the other religions are wrong.

I don't see how anyone can look rationally at the beliefs of most of the major religions and think the others are any more extreme.

Christianity has blood rituals, human sacrifice, magic floods with impossible boats, magic, etc. Mormons are hardly any sillier.

[foal]

(I have no point to make here, just thought I'd share)

My parents were in this Indian spiritual group when I was a kid. It's illegal in India and is on some list of "most dangerous cults". The chess grandmaster Korchnoi was a member. From my experiences (I was pretty young before my parents split with the group) it was a pleasant group of people. Vegetarians, into yoga and meditation. One result is that I'm a white kid with an Indian name. But I like it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tpir]

It sounds like this is turning into you defending Mormomnism from me, which I do not feel like getting into and is drifting from the point of the thread.


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So are you saying that if I grew up in a Mormon area and became a Mormon, this requires me to be "more susceptible to cults" than if I grew up in a protestant area and became a protestant?

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No, that is not what I am saying at all.


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Maybe, but Mormonism is large enough and close enough to "normal Christianity" that I don't see this applying.

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Sorry, but this is not a very good argument for anything. Mormonism's size and how close *you* think the beliefs run are not evidence of anything.


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If you're a Mormon and you look at all the different religions and sects stemming from Abraham, I don't think your own religion stands out as being abnormal. Also if you continue to live in Mormon heavy communities your beliefs would still not be "far away from normal".

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Also not a very good argument.


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I can't say I agree, but like you said that's a different topic.

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Of course you don't agree, DUCY?

For starters, I would feel weird voting for someone whose family was the head of an officially racist organization for so many years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_...ter-day_Saints

At least they time their "revelations" better and don't wait around for thousands of years to apologize like the Pope does.