AKo (Cold call or 3-bet)

[Gurravasa]

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Some good responses and some dubious ones [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I used to raise this 100% and I will continue to do so. I was just trying out some alternatives. Surely, I will burn some money trying out new things but it's a good way to learn and improve.

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Some thing you can learn without burning money. This is one of them...

[Apanage]

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...and being in position magnifies that edge.

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No it doesnt. Stop saying that. Being in position improves his implied odds as postflop gets easier.

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You´re right Oink.But this was more about semantics.I was actually referring to what I prefer to call the overall equity edge (hot and cold equity,implied odds, folding equity and so forth).

But even if you´re right the attitude in your posts are starting to get a bit tiresome.
We are a lot of players that don´t understand poker as well as you do but there is no reason to imply that we are idiots just because we don´t.In this case I´m not actually referring to the replies to my posts.
I know Mvoss defended your attitude the other day in a post where you were quite rude.I don´t think Mvoss did a very good job.
Your knowledge about the game is a good source for players to get better but if you could spread that knowledge with a little more love I think it would be much appreciated.

[mvoss]

Apanage and others. I'm sorry if my post the other day came off as a defense for Oinks attitude, it was actually meant as an explanation, not a defense.

We can disagree on which way of giving advice is better but in the end people are free to post any way they like as long as the moderators allow it. If you don't like the way people post you can always add them to your ignore list.

[Apanage]

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Apanage and others. I'm sorry if my post the other day came off as a defense for Oinks attitude, it was actually meant as an explanation, not a defense.

We can disagree on which way of giving advice is better but in the end people are free to post any way they like as long as the moderators allow it. If you don't like the way people post you can always add them to your ignore list.

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The problem with ignoring Oink is that I still kind of like him.He is like a difficult child to me.

[sethypooh21]

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...and being in position magnifies that edge.

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No it doesnt. Stop saying that. Being in position improves his implied odds as postflop gets easier.

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I'm with Oink on this. I'm on record, repeatedly, noting that Apa tends to conflate two very separate issues relating to preflop EQ and post flop playability. Or rather he vastly overestimates the extent to which position effects preflop play once we've decided to play the hand.

[disjunction]

I don't know if this is as clear as twoplustwo seems to think. By coldcalling you may be inducing the BB to make mistakes. If UTG caps I'm usually behind and my hand is transparent.

BB thinks he can play his suited connector and get great odds on the flop for his flush draw against one small bet, but he's wrong, when your hand is good he'll usually be facing two.

The problem is it might not be fun playing ace-high here when you haven't defined your hand. It requires a lot of thinking about what you're representing, etc, so I take it to 3-town here not because I know it's better, but because it's at least nearly as good and I have to think much less, I can worry about other spots.

[Oink]

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Apanage and others. I'm sorry if my post the other day came off as a defense for Oinks attitude, it was actually meant as an explanation, not a defense.

We can disagree on which way of giving advice is better but in the end people are free to post any way they like as long as the moderators allow it. If you don't like the way people post you can always add them to your ignore list.

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The problem with ignoring Oink is that I still kind of like him.He is like a difficult child to me.

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LOL

Apanage, dont take offense. None was meant. If you did, I am sorry.

[Apanage]

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Or rather he vastly overestimates the extent to which position effects preflop play once we've decided to play the hand.

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I´m more concerned about how position effects post-flop play.
There is two problems with the hot and cold equity preflop paranoia that is flooding this forum.

1.Hot and cold equity is measuring hand values when the hand is played to showdown.But hands are not played perfectly post-flop according to their actual equity since the information about the other players hands are concealed.Pots are constantly being taken down by hands that had less equity than other hands.And many hands are laid down by players that had enough equity to proceed.

2.The equity does not measure how many bets you win when you have the best hand or how many bets that goes in the pot when you have a losing hand.It just estimates how many times your hand is going to win against another hand (and it can´t even estimate that correctly as you can see in 1.)not which hand is going to win the most money.

Both problems are related to implied odds.And IMO your choice of preflop action and/or the way you intend to play the hand <u>when you´ve decided to play the hand </u> strongly effects your implied odds.
And in turn your choice of preflop action and your post-flop plan should be strongly effected by your position and implied odds instead of hot and cold equity alone.

It is my strong belief that you can have a decent equity edge preflop and that you can have two different outcomes (one where you lose money and one where you win money)depending on whether you raise or call preflop.
This phenomena is also IMO strongly linked to position. Generally speaking (if we are table selecting well) I think that a more passive approach preflop when OOP enhances our Implied odds and that a more aggressive approach in position enhances our implied odds.
The key to profitable poker IMO is to know what action that gives you maximum EV combining raw preflop equity value with implied odds value.
I´m probably wrong but I´m not yet totally convinced that the "2+2 way" of playing certain hands against certain villains gives the optimal EV.
In this case I´m however totally certain that raising preflop gives optimally EV.

As said in my answer to Oink.By equity edge I didn´t mean hot and cold equity.I meant overall equity including implied odds.I didn´t realize that this equity term was a product of my own brain and that the term really didnt exist outside it.

[sethypooh21]

Look, we've been over this before. You think that by playing it passively pre flop you will make up the lost equity edge post flop. I disagree strongly.

[Apanage]

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Look, we've been over this before. You think that by playing it passively pre flop you will make up the lost equity edge post flop. I disagree strongly.

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No that is just a small part of what I´m saying.
The bigger part is that in some situations with some hands against some opponents your implied odds( read your chance to win money)are so bad that your preflop equity just exists on paper.To realize it you have to play almost perfect poker.In fact you can end up losing money because you have been sucked into turn and river by playing a difficult hand with initiative.