When a read is not a read.

[SteveL91]

Excellent post. For better or worse, I've never used any outside program too overlay stats or anything. I just recently (as in today) exported a few select stats from pokertracker. Even playing four tables, I can still get a decent amount of notes on the people at my tables.

Getting - and more importantly - using reads is one of my biggest weaknesses. I still don't think I'm getting very good reads, so I've been cutting back on the tables lately. Hopefully, I'll start making some headway. My hand reading is already starting to improve (though, actually thinking about a hand really helps [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] ). I have a lot of holes to fill, but I think this one is the most pressing.

Thanks for the post.

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to honor the terms of their new T&C

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you comment further on this? I wasn't aware that Party skins were opposed to using PT. (Or is it just GT+ and PV that are prohibited?)

There is a PV thread floating around that says PT Pat has indicated that Party has no problem with his software.

Thanks,

Salty

[bottomset]

I never have used playerview, or gametime ... and don't use PT stats .. I do need to spend more time watching opponents .. i sometimes get into autoplay mode unless villian does something really standout

prob should drop 1-2 tables and work it up ..

[toss]

PokerNow Conditions are different, but I think their TOC is just a scare tactics of sorts, but yeah theres a good chance I could be wrong.

Nevertheless this is a great activity. Eventually you'll be playing at a nonPV/GT-friendly site like absolute, stars, paradise, or pokerroom and 'll be force to take notes. I've found that my threshhold is 3 Shorthanded tables, (anymore and I lose the razor thin edge that I have), and 4-5 fullring tables. If you're not constantly going though the hand histories, you're not playing optimal IMO.

[SteveL91]

[ QUOTE ]
I never have used playerview, or gametime ... and don't use PT stats .. I do need to spend more time watching opponents .. i sometimes get into autoplay mode unless villian does something really standout

prob should drop 1-2 tables and work it up ..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, lately, I've been playing 2-3 tables. I find that's a good balance between paying attention and not getting overly bored. I just don't have the patience for one table unless it's very short-handed or heads-up.

I still can't quite pick up on betting patterns reliably, but I find when I think a hand through, I can usually find a probable range of hands, which is something I didn't bother doing when I first started to play. The only stat I'd really like to have is VP$IP; the rest, I can discern on my own. For whatever reason, I never bother to notate if someone is loose or tight PF (unless it comes in the course of a hand like limping Q3o UTG, etc); lately, I've been forcing myself to try and do so.

[12ozLongneck]

While we're on the subject of notes, an excellent post by bisonbison can be found here.

I'm clearing the Pacific Bonus right now and I know that dropping down to one table and taking lots of notes has done quite a bit to improve my game in a very short time.

[GT123]

I 3 table Party 1/2
I have found that the GT+ stats arn't too acurate early on. I think having 200 hands on someone shows a lot more, but usually I don't have 200 hands on someone. I just use the stats to see roughly what type of players they are. From that I memorize how often they bluff, if they pump draws for value, if they fold to agression a lot,if they auto bet when checked to..etc. I don't actually write the notes down though, there are so many players on Party, I don't play against the same players often.

When I play live, the reads are much easier to memorize because you can put a face to it. Also it's only one table live and you can also use tells.

[olliejen]

[ QUOTE ]
It also helps if you aspire to be a good live player.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have to admit, I played a home game recently & i wasn't paying attention like i should've and there was no dialog bubble w/ everyone's stats....

[stlip]

What he said.

Every once in a while I'll see someone with stats after 20 hands like 12 VPIP, but I'll have a note that they played something goofy like JTo in UTG+1. Sure enough, by the time I'm up to 40 hands I'll see their VPIP at 35 or 50 or whatever and the old-fashioned read was the best and quickest read.

That said, no way am I giving up PT and PV, even for a little while. I only 2-table, so that I can pay pretty close attention to every hand already. I'm not going to go a few k hands deliberately playing with less info than I could have at my disposal, that's negative EV.

[istewart]

Only gays clear bonuses.

Nice post.

And the townspeople will rejoice. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]