When should the dealer push the chips to the winning player

[psandman]

not necessarily. Your initial question was when should the dealer push the pot.

Now you ask what happens when he does it wrong. Part of this answer will depend on when you speak up and if it can be confirmed that you in fact had the winner. (If the dealer has destroyed the board you don't get to win the pot just cause you claim to have a winner.

You need to speak up immediately don't wait for the dealer to psuh the pot destroy the board and then speak up. Say ething as soon as the pot starts going the wrong way. If you delay you have to share responsibility for the mistake.

[ExT]

[ QUOTE ]
Even so, the dealer was an idiot. It would be like an umpire calling the winner of a baseball game based on the score at the 4th inning. I would be very wary of playing while this dealer was dealing in any future games.

And at least the OP caught the dealer's mistake in time, and made him deal the rest of the board, and called the floor to resolve it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you have gone through your life without EVER making a mistake...However, many dealers DO make a mistake once and a while. Hundreds of hands a day, there is bound to be one or two that don't go perfectly... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Which is exactly why the rule "Cards speak for themselves" exists. If players would simply just table his or her hand at the end (keeping a finger on the cards to "protect the hand"), and wait for the pot to be pushed correctly, there would be less problems like this.

Most of the time, as long as both cards are turned face up and kept by the players, if the dealer misreads the hand and starts to push the pot the wrong way, players will generally jump and make the correction before it gets too far.

But let's say not only the dealer misreads the hand, but so does the person who SHOULD have won the hand, and the pot is pushed, chips are stacked, etc; If someone realizes the pot was pushed the wrong way, generally you can go to the tape as long as the cards were turned up and visible.

Nothing is more irritating than those that just show one card to try and win, or those that don't actually "table the hand" and instead hold the cards up so only people at the table can see. - Just table the hand, keep it in your control until the pot is pushed and then move on to the next hand...

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if I still have my hand and the casino has passed the pot and scooped the board. I then say my hand is the winner what should be the ruleing.

[/ QUOTE ]I ask them to review the tape. If they won't do that, or don't have cameras, then don't play there again and contact the state's gaming commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stationary cameras above the tables are typically not very effective for seeing details like card values. This is why you often hear that review of the tape was inconclusive on this type of dispute.

[MortalWombat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if I still have my hand and the casino has passed the pot and scooped the board. I then say my hand is the winner what should be the ruleing.

[/ QUOTE ]I ask them to review the tape. If they won't do that, or don't have cameras, then don't play there again and contact the state's gaming commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stationary cameras above the tables are typically not very effective for seeing details like card values. This is why you often hear that review of the tape was inconclusive on this type of dispute.

[/ QUOTE ]True, but my response was based on a case where they wouldn't even bother to review the tape, or don't even have cameras in the first place. I would not want to play again in such a casino in that case.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if I still have my hand and the casino has passed the pot and scooped the board. I then say my hand is the winner what should be the ruleing.

[/ QUOTE ]I ask them to review the tape. If they won't do that, or don't have cameras, then don't play there again and contact the state's gaming commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stationary cameras above the tables are typically not very effective for seeing details like card values. This is why you often hear that review of the tape was inconclusive on this type of dispute.

[/ QUOTE ]True, but my response was based on a case where they wouldn't even bother to review the tape, or don't even have cameras in the first place. I would not want to play again in such a casino in that case.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the 3 years I have been dealing I have never had the floor go to the tape for a game issue. The only time I had floor say they called surveillance over a dispute was an incident where an old man who asked to move to the six seat got up walked over to the five seat (the player had gone to the bathroom and put down his chips mixed in with the 5 seats chips.hey went to the camera to see if they could determine how much the 5 seat had . . . result was inconclusive (generally supported the estimate 5 seat gave but we could not determine exact amount.)

I have seen in some other rooms floors who run to call surveillance on every dispute. I consider them to be weak floors.

And the other odd thing is that when players start calling for the tape to be checked it is often for things where the tape couldn't possibly help them. A had a player who in the 1 seat pushed his cards forward and leaned back from the table. I mucked his hand thinking this was a fold. his hand was unidentifiable. he starts throwing a temper tantrum. Keeps telling the floor to check the tape. What does he think, the cameras can see the underside of his cards? his cards are gone -- even if I was wrong to muck them, the camera can't tell us what they are.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if I still have my hand and the casino has passed the pot and scooped the board. I then say my hand is the winner what should be the ruleing.

[/ QUOTE ]I ask them to review the tape. If they won't do that, or don't have cameras, then don't play there again and contact the state's gaming commission.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sucks if there's nothing they can do. However, in my admitedly limited experience, players who claim they've had the winning hand after the dealer has mucked the board are correct less than half the time (i.e., the dealer is usually right).

So, if this is an isolated incident, that's life. If things like this happen alot and the casino is poorly run, find a different place to play, if possible.

It seems to me that the only jerk in this entire scenario is the player with the counterfeited pair of 4s who wanted to keep the pot because the dealer made a mistake.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen in some other rooms floors who run to call surveillance on every dispute. I consider them to be weak floors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I called surveillance for the second time ever (for a table dispute) the other night. It was a 6 handed dealer's choice game and they were playing pineapple high low. There was an inexperienced dealer dealing. The dealer has divided the pot between the player that makes the game happen and another player. The dealer has just mucked everything and the sharpest player in the game speaks up and says the player that drives the game should have gotten the whole pot. Another player agreed that is what she saw. The player with the winning hand isn't able to read her own hand in high low split games so she doesn't know if she should have gotten the whole pot. I was pretty sure what the tape was going to show as the only two players in the game that could read their hand without assistance were telling me the same thing. I called surveillance because I didn't have the required three players telling me what I needed to hear. With a lot of players I would told them they had to protect their hand, but in this case that would have been unfair because this player can't read her own hand, she calls alls bets and then turns up her hand to see if she won anything.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
So if I still have my hand and the casino has passed the pot and scooped the board and mixed the board with the other cards. I then say my hand is the winner what should be the ruleing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rule #1: Protect Your Hand

My ruling is that you should speak up immediately and not just sit back to watch the drama unfold. At what point in pushing pot, scooping board, and washing deck did your tongue fall out of your head and your arms fall off your torso and the rest of your body become completely immobile? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

To answer your original question, I always kill all losing hands even if they're thrown in face-down. I move the board and player's cards out of the way face-up (or sometimes face-down but away from the muck). Then I push the pot. Then I kill the board/hand and move on. But not everybody is like that. Speak up, protect your hand. People, including dealers, make mistakes. It's the players who sit back with an air of righteousness and disbelief that nobody is seeing the tragedy that is taking place... those are the players who have regular problems. Not saying you're one of those, but based on your OP you could go down that path. Don't be That Guy. Save yourself now!

[WayAbvPar]

[ QUOTE ]
she calls alls bets and then turns up her hand to see if she won anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you clone her a few million times? We could all retire early.

[Neb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
she calls alls bets and then turns up her hand to see if she won anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you clone her a few million times? We could all retire early.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd practically need a few million of her to retire. This is a $5 game... the maximum in Colorado. She's almost correct to do so on pot odds alone every time anyway.

RR, go get the gaming commission to let us play spread limit... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]