Ethics of Releasing Sensitive Information - ZJ related.

[Karakaz]

Indeed, however he did NOT choose to have Party release information (through 3rd parties) regarding any ToS violation (which in essence this is).

Yes, he would have an explanation problem when suddenly disappearing from Party - that does not automatically give Party the right to basically throw him to the mob, now does it?

It is a very difficult situation, however lets try to keep this off the specific ZJ inident - these questions are much more fundamental than that (and yes, I could be prone to agree with your assessment in this specific case).

[BrunoThePug]

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Criminals have no reasonable expectation of privacy.

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Don't you run into a problem with this...

Say you're speeding, which is breaking the law/committing a crime. If you're pulled over and the cop asks to search your car you can still say "No". Your breaking the law by speeding doesn't give the police reason to go searching your car. Right?

[BluffTHIS!]

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Will your view change if someone loses their life over this?

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This was the most comical part of the OP. If ZJ or anyone else is so despondent over being outed publicly as a cheat, then they shouldn't focus on the outing, but on their own behaviour. And if they are seriously thinking of harming themselves, then they should check themselves into a psych program and get on meds. Criminals do often become very despondent over being caught and that becoming known. But that is no reason not to name and shame them.

[betadecay]

This post is relevant and it is quoted from the ZJ thread. It is from Myturn2raise. Funny I found another place to quote it. But criminals often have to deal with this scenario as illustrated in this quote.

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The sun comes up. You made a mistake and I hope you come out OK through it all. I've been in your shoes in some ways and it sucks. But, I hope you can make the best of the situation. I'm not saying it will be a positive event. I doubt it will be. Just make the best of what has happened, because that is all you can do.

I made a terrible mistake when I was 19, which I've mentioned a few times in the forum before. I was heavy into the drug scene. Most people I knew were 'doing it.' No one was getting in trouble for it. I, and my acquaintences, didn't think much trouble would result if we did get caught. No one was being hurt by what we were doing. Well....

I got caught. I was breaking the law. I thought then, and still think, that the laws are/were stupid. However, that gives me no right to not obide by those laws.

It turned out to be a big deal. Through months of legal battles/negotiations, I was fortunate enough to receive only a 3 years sentence in the department of corrections for a possession charge. (The time served was much less as I was a first-time, non-violent offender who received good-time credit though I did violate prison rules... yeah, nothing about prison is logical.)

At the time, I was studying to become a high school teacher. Good luck with that. Decisions at 19 can bar one permanently from a chosen field. I moved into a different field when I tried to put my life back on track. I earned numerous degrees from a major university in a prestigious program (one which is consistently rated as tops in the country), but I still could not find employment. Once a felon, always a felon. Luckily, poker exists and I was still able to find my niche and make a few dollars.

Today, I live a different, but still very good life. Many avenues were blocked, but, luckily, this is a land of opportunity.

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Also I'd like to reiterate that ZJ was a high profile player. He was an online poker celebrity. Any effects of his actions will likely not ripple much farther then the poker world. Celebrities have to deal with being under the microscope all the time. It comes with the territory. I'm sure we are all aware of britney Spears driving superfast with her newborn in her lap, or Wynona Ryder stealing from Dillards or where-ever. There is only mob mentality here because of the high profiles of both JJ and ZJ.


EDIT: I guess my point was that neither JJ or ZJ would be able to avoid this leaking out, regardless of how the sites handled it. They are just too high profile.

[Karakaz]

The question remains: Regardless of whether or not it would leak eventually, is it ethical to purposefully leak it?

[BluffTHIS!]

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The question remains: Regardless of whether or not it would leak eventually, is it ethical to purposefully leak it?

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A criminal that has harmed numerous citizens has no right to privacy, and those harmed have the right to know who harmed them. That's the bottom line. Online or B&M world. And regardless of whether it is the site operator or a 3rd party doing the exposing. Cheaters and thiefs don't have a moral right to remain anonymous when caught.

You are focusing on the wrong aspect of these situations.


And speaking of anonymity, why don't you tell us your original poster name before you created this gimmick account?

[MicroBob]

I have no problem with a 2rd party posting this.
Here's essentially how I read it.


Attention World:

I have uncovered a player who I know to be an online-cheat.
His name is XXXX.
Here's the e-mail from Party confirming that he cheated.
If you played in an event against him or any of his accounts I think you should be aware that you may be due some compensation.
Even if you haven't played against him you may be interested in asking Party how much cheating is going on at their site and what they intend to do about it.



Your point that somebody can just make it up is somewhat valid I suppose.
But I could also just say that you rob little children of their milk-money and I can do this right now if I choose.

So I'm not too concerned on the 'dangers' of someone faking a 'so-and-so is a cheater' e-mail.

[Karakaz]

This is not a gimmick account. I've been lurking and found this topic interesting, that is all.

Also, cheaters and thieves - says who? Where is the evidence? You're right, there is no public evidence.

[Noo Yawk]

For the last time:

If you are worried about the backlash of cheating, DON'T CHEAT. Pretty simple.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a gimmick account. I've been lurking and found this topic interesting, that is all.

Also, cheaters and thieves - says who? Where is the evidence? You're right, there is no public evidence.

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In the case of stars at least, their poker room manager, Lee Jones, who is well known here, provided that evidence on ZJ in the main ZJ cheat thread. Unless of course he's some gimmick account and the real Lee Jones never reads these forums and hasn't caught on yet.