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#11
07-10-2007, 01:54 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
I don't get it either. This raise isn't for value, doesn't clean up outs, probably won't slow down SB, and just seems kinda pointless.
The best that can be said about it is that it probably doesn't mattter since there will probably be ample action on this flop regardless. 
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#13
07-10-2007, 02:03 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
um call?
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#14
07-10-2007, 02:17 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
[ QUOTE ]
Results: Did it accomplish anything? [/ QUOTE ] Not yet. I raised because for the extra price of one small bet I may get a few players to fold and increase my chances of winning this big pot if I improve. Plus, if it turns out that no one has a flush draw (and who knows if anybody does, large field or not, with this crew) I can represent if a spade comes on the turn if I can get most of them to fold. I have a few backdoor draws to go w/ my pair. I've got at least a call, and good reasons to raise.
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#15
07-10-2007, 02:32 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Results: Did it accomplish anything? [/ QUOTE ] Not yet. I raised because for the extra price of one small bet I may get a few players to fold and increase my chances of winning this big pot if I improve. Plus, if it turns out that no one has a flush draw (and who knows if anybody does, large field or not, with this crew) I can represent if a spade comes on the turn if I can get most of them to fold. I have a few backdoor draws to go w/ my pair. I've got at least a call, and good reasons to raise. [/ QUOTE ] But it may not be just one small bet since the SB will probably 3 bet here most of the time unless you have a specific read that she won't. I do think that your raise might get some people out who may think that they may get stuck in a raising war between you and SB. I would still call, see what happens behind you, hopefully improve on the turn, and be able to raise the SB and really charge the others.
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#16
07-10-2007, 02:57 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Results: Did it accomplish anything? [/ QUOTE ] Not yet. I raised because for the extra price of one small bet I may get a few players to fold and increase my chances of winning this big pot if I improve. Plus, if it turns out that no one has a flush draw (and who knows if anybody does, large field or not, with this crew) I can represent if a spade comes on the turn if I can get most of them to fold. I have a few backdoor draws to go w/ my pair. I've got at least a call, and good reasons to raise. [/ QUOTE ] I don't like the call preflop if she can only have AA or KK. Also, if she is anywhere close to being competant, your raise might clear everyone else out, but you are getting 3 bet for sure. So pretty much what you are doing is helping her clear the field with her hand but reducing your implied odds if you hit your hand. Another thing. What good does representing a flush do for you? No one in that game will fold AA postflop ever, and you know that probably better than anyone else in this forum.
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#18
07-10-2007, 05:56 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the call preflop if she can only have AA or KK. [/ QUOTE ] The pot has gotten too big to not play a hand like T8s that can make a big hand and take down a pot this size. [ QUOTE ] Also, if she is anywhere close to being competant, your raise might clear everyone else out, but you are getting 3 bet for sure. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a good deal. [ QUOTE ] So pretty much what you are doing is helping her clear the field with her hand but reducing your implied odds if you hit your hand. [/ QUOTE ] We would both benefit from clearing the field. Our chances of winning improve greatly once we get heads up. Once the pot gets this big, we shouldn't be concerned with preserving our implied odds. We should be trying to take it down as soon as possible.
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#20
07-10-2007, 09:51 AM
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Re: I bragged I made the right play, but was it?
I'd definitely fold preflop because your relative position blows.
Postflop, I don't like it but I haven't done the math yet. I think it might be ok in a freeze the field sort of way but your hand is actually really weak here and I'm not sure if, as much as I hate saying this, calling is necessary here (consequently diminishing the value of raising). This is probably a moment where online, I'd raise and pray, but I haven't played in a situation like this online in a long time (and I'd fold preflop here). Were I somehow in this spot and I didn't know that one player had AA/KK, then the raise becomes a lot more tenable, but now with me drawing on a twospade board, I actually think mucking might be the most viable option. Blah blah blah, pot is big and all, and I know all that, but you've already stated you're drawing to ~6 outs subject to redraws when you're ahead of SB, but you have a whole field to contend with here on a pretty draw-friendly board, which diminishes your equity pretty significantly. Yeah, the more I write about it, the more I think a fold is the play. But I still think it's one street too late. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Allin you could pretty easily call the 2 in the huge pot because your equity isn't that horrible vs. the field, but given your relative position you just turn the whole hand into a reverse implied odds clusterfuck raise and pray and end up spewing on multiple streets just to hope to come out alive with the best hand. PS - It's live. Look left and get some sort of read when the flop comes out, because SB is always betting based on your read and you really ought to know how many people are really interested, semi-interested, or generally disinterested in this particular flop. Rob
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