$11 - Folded JJ pf.

[durron597]

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It isn't terrible at all.

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I would go so far as to say... standard?

[seke2]

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It isn't terrible at all.

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I would go so far as to say... standard?

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I don't think it's terrible, but I also don't think folding JJ here is standard in an $11.

[tigerite]

I dunno, honestly it's very close (between push/fold) that's all, and it certainly isn't going to hurt your $EV very much folding here, if at all.

[wpr101]

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First it is early, and you have only 25 in the pot.

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That is completely irrelevant. It is the size of the pot that matters and not how much you personally contributed.

How come nobody have mentioned the 4xbb raise is suspicious? If he had a strong had would he not encourage action. The guy who just calls has a weak hand in my opinion. While it is possible he is slow playing it is very unlikely.

I definetly push this. My logic being nothing here says that either one of them has QQ,KK,or AA. Like I said the first guy wouldn't raise that much and then second guy probably wouldn't call there. There's now 475 in the pot? Your stack is around 1100. I honestly think this is an easy push. If you get called by AK good! You are a favorite plus there is an 200 in there assuming one guy folds. The times where he does have beat with an overpair you still win 20% of the time.

[RobGW]

I cant imagine putting someone at the 11's on that tight of a range. I've seen many idiotic raises with low pp, sc, and the like. You still have quite a bit of FE. And even if he has AK or AQ you have the good end of a coin flip with 225 dead money in there to sweeten the deal. Oh and you only have 1150 left. I know you arent desperate per say but you are behind and the escalating blinds arent going to help you. ok, he could have aa-qq and you have to suck that up. But he's more likely to have some other garbage and you still may even get a call from a lower pp as low level players love to call with them anyways. I think the combination of FE, coin flip with dead money, and possibly being called by a lower pp outweigh the possibility you are looking at a higher pp.

[seke2]

Yeah, it's close. Personally, I'd push this every single time and be happy with the results either way.

Time for some approximate math.

Hero folds:
Hero has 1115

Hero pushes: (507 + 531.2 + 86.75) = 1124.95
Both fold, 30% - Hero has 1690 (.3 * 1690 = 507)
One calls, 60%
Hero wins, 35% - Hero has 2530 (.35 * 2530) * .6 = 531.2
Villain wins, 65% - Hero has 0 (0)
Both call, 10%
Hero wins, 25% - Hero has 3470 (.25 * 3470) * .1 = 86.75
Villain wins, 75% - Hero has 0 (0)

Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop (470 + 422.5 + 246.675 + 138.8) = 1277.975

Hero calls and folds to an unfavorable flop, 50% - Hero has 940 (.5 * 940) = 470
Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop, Villains fold, 25% - Hero has 1690 (.25 * 1690) = 422.5
Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop, 1 Villain calls:
15%
Hero wins, 65% - Hero has 2530 (.65 * 2530) * .15 = 246.675
Villain wins, 35% - Hero has 0 (0)
Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop, both Villains call, 10%:
Hero wins, 40% - Hero has 3470 (.4 * 3470) * .1 = 138.8
Villain wins, 60% - Hero has 0

So if those numbers are anywhere close to right...

Calling: 1277.95
Pushing: 1124.95
Folding: 1115

Numbers seem vaguely right?

[RobGW]

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One calls, 60%
Hero wins, 35% - Hero has 2530 (.35 * 2530) * .6 = 531.2
Villain wins, 65% - Hero has 0 (0)

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I think hero is going to win more than 35%. vs AK he's gonna win 55%. vs a lower pp he's 80%. vs higher pp he's 20%. I guess I'd say its closer to 50% overall. Iguess it depends on how often you get called by a lower pp but at the 11's I think its a good possibility.

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Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop, 1 Villain calls:
15%
Hero wins, 65% - Hero has 2530 (.65 * 2530) * .15 = 246.675
Villain wins, 35% - Hero has 0 (0)
Hero calls and pushes a favorable flop, both Villains call, 10%:
Hero wins, 40% - Hero has 3470 (.4 * 3470) * .1 = 138.8
Villain wins, 60% - Hero has 0


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OTOH if hero pushes an all undercard flop and gets called its more likely to be an overpair and even if it is ak hero can still lose so I would lower his winning percentage there.

So overall I'd just go with your original thought and just push.

[seke2]

Yeah, if you shift those numbers to 50/50 for both scenarios, the EV goes to 1353 for pushing and 1221 for calling.

Happy middle ground makes it something like 1300 for push, 1300 for call, and 1115 for fold.

Still can't find the fold here, but push vs. call is debatable. I'd personally push, but that's just because it makes things easier for me and I don't have to make another decision.

[BradleyT]

Do you really read that much into a 4BB raise?

If I click the slider over 1 too many times I'm not going to go through the effort of clicking it back 1 time just to get it to 3xBB.

[durron597]

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It isn't terrible at all.

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I would go so far as to say... standard?

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I don't think it's terrible, but I also don't think folding JJ here is standard in an $11.

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You're probably right, the problem is against an EP raiser and a caller you could be in serious trouble, I would probably go with it in the heat of the moment but I certainly wouldn't call and play it oop against two opponents.

Against any sort of decent opposition with a 4xBB raise UTG+1 this is a standard fold.