Major live tourny...pocket 10's dilemma

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
You are allowed to fold whenever the action is on you.

The implication was UTG+1 was light.

JJ is not calling a raise to 45K, probably.

The hand is no good against further action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise to 45K and someone who has you covered puts you allin. You are calling 65K to win 175K, so you are 2.7-1 pot odds. How can you say the hand is no good? Isn't there enough chance you are not dominated to call? You are allowed to fold, but why put yourself in position to fold TT with 2.7-1 pot odds. Sklansky talks in TPFAP about not raising with TT or AQs when a reraise would put you in a difficult situation.

UTG raiser could easily have JJ-AA. How do you say 2nd position caller is light? A 2nd position caller of an UTG raise probably has a strong enough hand to raise himself if UTG didn't raise. There is some possibility 2nd position could have AA also. Plus you have most of the table to act.

[tallvinny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are allowed to fold whenever the action is on you.

The implication was UTG+1 was light.

JJ is not calling a raise to 45K, probably.

The hand is no good against further action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise to 45K and someone who has you covered puts you allin. You are calling 65K to win 175K, so you are 2.7-1 pot odds. How can you say the hand is no good? Isn't there enough chance you are not dominated to call? You are allowed to fold, but why put yourself in position to fold TT with 2.7-1 pot odds. Sklansky talks in TPFAP about not raising with TT or AQs when a reraise would put you in a difficult situation.

UTG raiser could easily have JJ-AA. How do you say 2nd position caller is light? A 2nd position caller of an UTG raise probably has a strong enough hand to raise himself if UTG didn't raise. There is some possibility 2nd position could have AA also. Plus you have most of the table to act.

[/ QUOTE ]


Not sure but it sounds like you are advocating raising and plaaninga call to a push pre flop. I understand the strategy but don't agree for two reasons:

1. Your planning to get the right pot odds to call as a 2.7-1 dog. You are on day two of a major tourney facing at least one solid player. I think you can pick a better spot with the chip stack. You have zero chips invested at this point with what looks like a marginal hand to a UTG raise and a smooth call and 7 players left to act

2. If your reraise gets flat called by one or more stacks (lot of action behind you) there are not too many boards you are going to like. The pot will be so big that pushing post flop no matter what might be the only way to win and you may get called as a big dog.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are allowed to fold whenever the action is on you.

The implication was UTG+1 was light.

JJ is not calling a raise to 45K, probably.

The hand is no good against further action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise to 45K and someone who has you covered puts you allin. You are calling 65K to win 175K, so you are 2.7-1 pot odds. How can you say the hand is no good? Isn't there enough chance you are not dominated to call? You are allowed to fold, but why put yourself in position to fold TT with 2.7-1 pot odds. Sklansky talks in TPFAP about not raising with TT or AQs when a reraise would put you in a difficult situation.

UTG raiser could easily have JJ-AA. How do you say 2nd position caller is light? A 2nd position caller of an UTG raise probably has a strong enough hand to raise himself if UTG didn't raise. There is some possibility 2nd position could have AA also. Plus you have most of the table to act.

[/ QUOTE ]


Not sure but it sounds like you are advocating raising and plaaninga call to a push pre flop. I understand the strategy but don't agree for two reasons:

1. Your planning to get the right pot odds to call as a 2.7-1 dog. You are on day two of a major tourney facing at least one solid player. I think you can pick a better spot with the chip stack. You have zero chips invested at this point with what looks like a marginal hand to a UTG raise and a smooth call and 7 players left to act

2. If your reraise gets flat called by one or more stacks (lot of action behind you) there are not too many boards you are going to like. The pot will be so big that pushing post flop no matter what might be the only way to win and you may get called as a big dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm saying you can't reraise in this situation. You have to call or fold.

[stevepa]

Reraising is awful. You're very often behind, have little FE vs. UTG+1 and have plenty of players still to act.

I'm not sure why no one's terrified of the UTG+1 call. A good player's range here is tiny. Like AA-KK tiny. What else would a good player call 1/4 of his stack with in this spot? Who cares if he likes to see flops, if he's good he can't have hands like 66-88, AK/AQ here. Also almost certainly not JJ-99 and probably not QQ.

So if I call, it's for set value only. I don't think you quite have the implied odds (especially considering all the players still to act), so I reluctantly fold. Calling might be close, but if I call I put in no more chips unless I flop a set, or an overpair and it's checked to me.

Steve

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraising is awful. You're very often behind, have little FE vs. UTG+1 and have plenty of players still to act.

I'm not sure why no one's terrified of the UTG+1 call. A good player's range here is tiny. Like AA-KK tiny. What else would a good player call 1/4 of his stack with in this spot? Who cares if he likes to see flops, if he's good he can't have hands like 66-88, AK/AQ here. Also almost certainly not JJ-99 and probably not QQ.

So if I call, it's for set value only. I don't think you quite have the implied odds (especially considering all the players still to act), so I reluctantly fold. Calling might be close, but if I call I put in no more chips unless I flop a set, or an overpair and it's checked to me.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1's flat call is strange. It looks like aces, but why wouldn't he push with a big pair, figuring UTG would have odds to call. The flat call looks so suspsicious. Maybe he figures someone won't notice and try a queeze play. I am not sure that UTG+1 has a big pair, but that is a possibility. In fact I would be a little worried about aces anyway with a UTG+1 flat caller.

In any case the early position action makes TT look pretty weak.

[jlocdog]

Not only is the heat coming from way up front where hands typically tend to be stronger but you are also up front. There are still 6-7 people to act so you don't guarantee yourself a flop. You have an above average stack and are looking to tangle with a modest holding. This would be much different obviously if you were the one raising. But you ain't. Also the "really tricky UTG+1" player just smooth called 20% of his stack. Scary. Even if you had the biggest PP here, you can be sure that any A-J will beat you. Dump.

On a side note if you were on the CO or Button that I probably call for set value here.