Creating Value in the Forum

[RichC.]

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Two words

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Funny but just wrong.....LOL

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You should have expected this from me, its what I am best at.

[CybrPunk]

Seke,

While your intentions are definitely noble and honorable, I honestly beleive that you get out of these forums what you put into them. There's a reason that some posters rise to the top as a result of reading/posting here while others struggle to make their 50th post after lurking here for 2 or more years having never made a final table in a tournament and having to continuously deposit money into their poker accounts.

If more posters really put effort into learning how to play the game as opposed to looking for spoonfed answers on what to do in each situation it would benefit everyone.

Not to toot my own horn... much... but I started playing poker right around the time I registered for these forums. I've not deposited into my accounts in nearly 2 years now and have been a successful MTT and cash game player on a consistent basis. This is directly a result of becoming involved in these forums, speaking with people both on and off the forums and honestly dedicating myself to acquiring as much understanding of poker as I could.

I'm not special. I'm not superhuman or some intellectual giant. I'm an average guy who put in the effort to improve.

Anyone can do the same but don't fool yourself. It takes work! Not everyone puts forth that same amount of effort... and it shows in their results.

[BlueEcho]

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Two words

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Funny but just wrong.....LOL

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You should have expected this from me, its what I am best at.

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QFT

[rafiki]

imho there's nothing more satisfying then just posting "standard". Even if you don't mean it. The word itself wasn't even fun for me before 2+2. Now it's...well....standard [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[seke2]

CybrPunk,
I hear you. I do. But in the same vein that we give people advice on how to play poker hands, my post is at a meta-posting level. So, yeah, I'm giving advice on HOW to post about poker hands to help people who might be struggling to understand why they aren't getting value out of the forum.

(God I'm a nerd)

[sapsuckah]

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(God I'm a nerd)

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[Fiksdal]

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(God we are all nerds)

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QFT [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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FYP

[ItalianFX]

I agree Seke and I have called people out on a few occasions when they say "Fold," so I say, "that doesn't contribute to the discussion, explain why." Then they come back with why, and it is very informative. I know, for me, I post alot of easy hands. The hands I normally post are the hands that I usually get busted on because I want to see if I made the right play and lost, or made a mistake.

I think one of the problems is that people get tired of saying the same thing over and over again. While they understand the inner details, going through it all over and over again is just tedious, however, it helps people who never do that kind of stuff.

I just recently started using Pokerstove alot more and when I respond to hands, I like to come up with hand ranges. When I first started playing poker I was always like, "How the hell do you put people on hand ranges?!?!?" I never realized how much it really meant to the game. I have slowly evolved into a breakeven player, but I still lack mid->late game moves and aggression. I read Theory of Poker and that really helped my game a ton. While some people say HoH helped them, I would have to say that ToP has helped my game the most.

I know that when I read a hand and don't know what to do, I just pass it up and wait for someone else to respond. I guess I should start trying to take ahold of those situations because those are probably the ones I need to breakthrough in my game to become a better player.

Just recently I played in a tourney of 2869 players and came in 60th. I was pretty proud of that. I had a few big hands like AA vs 2 all-ins that really helped me climb the bored, but I lack the late game aggression. I know a big area I need to work on is restealing.

So all of this rambling, I really haven't said much. I guess I didn't say what it was that I was trying to say.

[CybrPunk]

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I think one of the problems is that people get tired of saying the same thing over and over again. While they understand the inner details, going through it all over and over again is just tedious, however, it helps people who never do that kind of stuff.

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In my opinion, this is exactly why we no longer see players like MLG, Ansky, Adanthar, Rizen and the likes posting regularly in the strategy forums.

Not to call him out specifically, but I was surprised to discover that Rizen hasn't posted a strategy post on the forums in over a year now! I don't take that to mean that he no longer cares about these forums, but rather that he's already contributed his entire poker knowledge fifty times over in the many posts he's made in the past. There is very little in the way of new and revolutionary thinking here and I'm sure it detracts from his hourly rate to spend a large amount of time reviewing many of todays posts.

There's a natural progression that occurs in these forums. It happened in generations past when FossilMan and Ray Zee used to post here regularly... as did various other pros that have since moved on to bigger and brighter careers.

As is the case with natural progression new people need to come forward and carry the torch. There are quite a few talented players here today that make attempts to do just that but the onus can't be completely on these select few people to generate interesting discussion. That's why it's important for the unknown posters to step forward and start posting more. By that I don't mean just create more new topics. Respond to other posts. Take a risk at being called out. Even if you are wrong, the discussion generated can often be more educational than just sitting back waiting to be spoon-fed a two-word answer by one the forum superstars.

[Ansky]

By in large the biggest obstacle to newer poster/players, is simply not knowing how to think about the game. They don't have a clue how to analyze hands from a pure EV perspective, they are too stuck in their own assumptions and habits, they are too results oriented, and most of all they are just plain close minded.

There are many ways to get good at poker. Some people need strict guidence (note: this does not mean they should just be told what to do w/o explanation--- it just means they need to be told what to think), some are extremely perceptive and just "get it" really quickly.

A good example of someone who just got it very quickly, is Timex. I remember last summer I STAKED HIM, in the 1k on stars, and maybe even a few other tournaments. Within a few months his roll like quintupled and he was crushing tournaments across the internet. He surrounded himself with good players and took a very aggressive approach to learning the game, and it paid off.

For me, it probably took me close to 2 years before I made a very aggressive effort to get better. I was basically an up and coming poster, I posted decent stuff and put in a lot of effort. Eventually better players noticed and I was able to talk to them to get in their heads. For example, I was mildly intimidated by guys like Strassa and MLG, and it took me a while before I PMed them for their AIM sn's. It was however, talking to these 2 that brought my game up from mediocre mid stakes drone, to whatever I am now. I would not be where I am today if I didn't pick the brains of players who were better than me.

There are certain posters here who are decent, and prob know their pushbotting charts but in all honesty dont have a [censored] clue when it comes to NL theory or anything beyond basic tournament hands. They post like 40 times a week and most of their posts are fine, but they are stuck in huge leaky habits that they don't seem to care to fix. This is the result of asking what to do, and not why. There are hardly any 2 situations that are the same in poker, so if you are just making threads asking what to do and not really noticing why you should do different things, you're gonna get better, but your skill will certainly plateau.