100/200 River C/R Hand of the Month (vs. Brad Booth)

[riverboatking]

here are my thoughts:

1.)in your mind you are value betting the river not bluffing (this is key).

2.)villian is good and capable of making big plays (this is key).

3.)good tricky players are about 1000x more likely to CR shove with worse then your hand in this spot then they are to call (this is key).

therefore if you are not going to INSTA-CALL a river CR shove your bet is terrible.

as long as you called his shove then i like your line, and i don't care what the results are.

if you value bet this river and fold to a raise you didn't have a good thought process before you bet the river.

i think it is a little silly to start trying to figure out what he might have AFTER you bet and get CR so all this going back and forth over what hands he'll play like this seems to be besides the point.

before you bet the river you should have some idea what hands he has and a correlated idea of with what frequency you can expect him to bluff raise you on the river, because that is the only reason for betting.

[TheWorstPlayer]

This hand seems so similar to the one against PA. Agree with RBK.

[Moonshine]

shouldn't this post really be discussing the merits of the river bet in the first place? i'm assuming you called this, since if you didn't, there was really no point in making the bet at all. i can't ever see him calling with worse-just pushing or folding, so obv it makes no sense for you to bet/fold

[ActionJeff]

[ QUOTE ]
shouldn't this post really be discussing the merits of the river bet in the first place? i'm assuming you called this, since if you didn't, there was really no point in making the bet at all. i can't ever see him calling with worse-just pushing or folding, so obv it makes no sense for you to bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Booth could definitely call with worse hands, and Jman also needs to bet here some of the time to protect his bluffs. Fearing a river c/r AI is not a reason to check IMO, although that certainly would reduce variance.

Personally, I think the best approach is to dive right in and trust your ability to make tough decisions.

-Jeff

[Roman]

totally disagree with RBK, Booth is def calling here with worse hands sometimes

[Heir_Aparent]

[ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Booth could definitely call with worse hands, and Jman also needs to bet here some of the time to protect his bluffs. Fearing a river c/r AI is not a reason to check IMO, although that certainly would reduce variance.

Personally, I think the best approach is to dive right in and trust your ability to make tough decisions.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree. Making this river bet a lot/some of the time is 100% necessary high stakes NLHE HU. Suggesting it should only be made in a fixed bet/call line is just wierd/silly.

[Nezzar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shouldn't this post really be discussing the merits of the river bet in the first place? i'm assuming you called this, since if you didn't, there was really no point in making the bet at all. i can't ever see him calling with worse-just pushing or folding, so obv it makes no sense for you to bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Booth could definitely call with worse hands, and Jman also needs to bet here some of the time to protect his bluffs. Fearing a river c/r AI is not a reason to check IMO, although that certainly would reduce variance.

Personally, I think the best approach is to dive right in and trust your ability to make tough decisions.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree aswell. You make very good posts action jeff.

[riverboatking]

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totally disagree with RBK, Booth is def calling here with worse hands sometimes

[/ QUOTE ]

well first of all i didn't say booth will NEVER call with a worse hand, i said he is 1000x more likely to CR bluff with worse hands and i stick by that.

meh from what i know of booth i have a hard time believing he'll just call here more ofen then he'll CR shove with a lower PP/A high type of hand.

seems way more likely if he's unsure of if his hand is good in this spot he'll shove just in case.

could be wrong though.

and as for protecting you ability to bluff i don't think tha is applicable here.
you can still bluff even if you check in this spot, anyone who thinks that good HU players aren't going to drastically change their lines, play in a dynamic fashion are out of their mind.
the point is that if in Jman's mind he is value betting the river that means he has made a read up to that point and should be willing/committed to call a shove here because he knows that his opponent is willing to make that play with a worse hand.

what on earth does his bet accomplish if he isn't willing to commit to his read?

i would love for someone to explain to me the logic behind betting and then folding in this spot.

[AK87]

Since when did everyone start betting rivers for value with second pair with the intention of snap calling a c/r shove? I personally think this river bet is necessary against someone like Booth, however he plays absolutely crazy. I think that IM conversation OP posted was a good basis for a good thought process.

RBK, while I do not know what I would do in this particular instance (probably fold), I think taking the mindset of only betting a river with the intention of calling a shove because you made a read that your hand was best, makes your game highly exploitable from good opponents. The fact that he c/r river adds a lot more info about the strength of his hand and should be taken into effect.

[riverboatking]

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The fact that he c/r river adds a lot more info about the strength of his hand and should be taken into effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.